I think that you've made some VERY good points, I'm not so sure I can say that I've ever experienced it from that POV...
Another thing that I am inclined to say, is that I don't think that the God that created all of creation was entirely conscious of doing so, I think that it just happened, and he just kinda turned around and said, "Oh shit, this is kinda cool..." (That has merit, hahaha, it's a well documented, albeit very broken down view of my favorite philosopher) My thing is, that no matter how you look at it, God, no excuse me, Lord God, has had his existence proven through MATHEMATICS...
There is an unknown value (RAUM, RAUM where for art thou RAUM) that absolutely HAS to be accounted for when doing any calculation in this universe...I feel that unknown but present value is that creator God, that Lord God, that we have given face to represent ALL things that aren't known...
AYHJA
Evolution vs Creation II
-
AYHJA
- 392
- Posts: 37990
- Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 2:25 pm
- Location: Washington, D.C.
- Contact:
-
Aemeth
- Posts: 1280
- Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:37 am
Ehh..these are all good viewpoints...but ive researched this a lot...and the truth is that either way there will be unanswerable questions..
Acknowledge the supernatural, or Descartes (it exsists, because it exists)...Supernatural seems the choice of logic, combining with all the other strong arguements made for the supernatural in other aspects of history and life.
Descartes justs puts off the truth in my opinion..
Acknowledge the supernatural, or Descartes (it exsists, because it exists)...Supernatural seems the choice of logic, combining with all the other strong arguements made for the supernatural in other aspects of history and life.
Descartes justs puts off the truth in my opinion..
| BBcode: | |
| Hide post links |
-
Cicada
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:59 pm
-
Cicada
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:59 pm
Re: That thin red line...
QUOTE(AYHJA)It just doesn't hold much weight...For the same principle and or logic that the theory is based on, you could say we are the decendants of all things alive...I think the point has been made that we share a similar DNA structure to fruit, and the likes...Yet, you'd never hear someone say that they believe we were spawned from bananas...
No, the logic of evolution, is that everything is the descendant of an original population of life. Abiogenesis, this could be an act of God or some REALLY unprobable chemistry, what matters is that this original life is always going to evolve.
QUOTE(AYHJA)As I have said, I would be absolutely thrilled to have the theory of evolution explain how it is one primate, spawned 2 similar, but VERY different species in itself, based on social and physical needs..? No doubt, the terrain of the globe has changed MANY times, but where on earth were apes, that they became...Less evolved than humans in almost every aspect, that they could return over a period of time and be looked at as they are now, and inhabiting the same space...?
We are not less evolved, we are just evolved differently. Those kind of value jugements aren't helpful. The difference is this, a population of our ancestors went out into the savahna, we hard sharp teeth and useful hands and nothing else, we were in what is probably the most dangerous place on earth. Every "monkey" that had legs that were better for running than for a climbing pivot, arms better for throwing things but not for climbing, and greater intelligence and social skills for pack hunting survived, fucked, and passed on these genes; everybody else died. As for the "smart" ones that stayed in the trees? well, if they grew our type of arms and legs they wouldn't be able to survive in the trees, and whats the point of getting a bigger brain when your doing fine and surviving. Are you aware of how much of a glucose hog our brain is, it could be a real liability in the wrong situations where it is not needed for survival
Adaptation and evolution are the same thing, that's like saying there's a difference between walking a foot and a mile. The only difference is the distance, not the process, and there are no biological processes which prevent evolution.
God and evolution can exist. You just have to believe that he was so awesome that he created a system (DNA) and then fine tuned the enviroment and the way things went so that everything evolved into what he wanted according to plan. That's way more impressive then him designing something in CAD and then plotting it out.
But still: L-GLO, jaw bones of reptiles and the ear bones of mammals, teflon eating bacteria, sickle cell, fossils, whales and fish. Evolution exists, and I'm proud that my 400000 grandfather was an australopithicus, because he must have been such an awesome one he got laid.
God bless.
No, the logic of evolution, is that everything is the descendant of an original population of life. Abiogenesis, this could be an act of God or some REALLY unprobable chemistry, what matters is that this original life is always going to evolve.
QUOTE(AYHJA)As I have said, I would be absolutely thrilled to have the theory of evolution explain how it is one primate, spawned 2 similar, but VERY different species in itself, based on social and physical needs..? No doubt, the terrain of the globe has changed MANY times, but where on earth were apes, that they became...Less evolved than humans in almost every aspect, that they could return over a period of time and be looked at as they are now, and inhabiting the same space...?
We are not less evolved, we are just evolved differently. Those kind of value jugements aren't helpful. The difference is this, a population of our ancestors went out into the savahna, we hard sharp teeth and useful hands and nothing else, we were in what is probably the most dangerous place on earth. Every "monkey" that had legs that were better for running than for a climbing pivot, arms better for throwing things but not for climbing, and greater intelligence and social skills for pack hunting survived, fucked, and passed on these genes; everybody else died. As for the "smart" ones that stayed in the trees? well, if they grew our type of arms and legs they wouldn't be able to survive in the trees, and whats the point of getting a bigger brain when your doing fine and surviving. Are you aware of how much of a glucose hog our brain is, it could be a real liability in the wrong situations where it is not needed for survival
Adaptation and evolution are the same thing, that's like saying there's a difference between walking a foot and a mile. The only difference is the distance, not the process, and there are no biological processes which prevent evolution.
God and evolution can exist. You just have to believe that he was so awesome that he created a system (DNA) and then fine tuned the enviroment and the way things went so that everything evolved into what he wanted according to plan. That's way more impressive then him designing something in CAD and then plotting it out.
But still: L-GLO, jaw bones of reptiles and the ear bones of mammals, teflon eating bacteria, sickle cell, fossils, whales and fish. Evolution exists, and I'm proud that my 400000 grandfather was an australopithicus, because he must have been such an awesome one he got laid.
God bless.
| BBcode: | |
| Hide post links |
-
trashtalkr
- Sports Guru
- Posts: 7978
- Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 8:20 pm
- Contact:
"Adaptation and evolution are the same thing, that's like saying there's a difference between walking a foot and a mile. The only difference is the distance, not the process, and there are no biological processes which prevent evolution."
this is bullshit....adaptation and evolution are not the same thing...look at ayjha's word of the day thread and you'll see the differnce. everyone adapts to teh culture and situation but they don't evolve.
just read the other thread
this is bullshit....adaptation and evolution are not the same thing...look at ayjha's word of the day thread and you'll see the differnce. everyone adapts to teh culture and situation but they don't evolve.
just read the other thread
"If there were no eternal consciousness in a man, if at the bottom of everything there were only a wild ferment, a power that twisting in dark passions produced everything great or inconsequential; if an unfathomable insatiable emptiness lay hid beneath everything, what would life be but despair?"
Soren Kierkegaard
Soren Kierkegaard
| BBcode: | |
| Hide post links |
-
Cicada
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:59 pm
QUOTE(trashtalkr)this is bullshit....adaptation and evolution are not the same thing...look at ayjha's word of the day thread and you'll see the differnce. everyone adapts to teh culture and situation but they don't evolve.
That's just semantics, I was refering to the biological adaptation.
You know? When people say that certain species of moths going from white (to camoflage with tree lichen) to black (to camoflage with soot) during the industrial revolution, or bacterium swapping enzymes to break down organic matter to enzymes that break down plastics in recent history, or humans developing heterozygous sickle cell to resist malaria is "adaptation".
It's silly to acknowledge these, but to dismiss them as not being evolution by calling them "adaptations", when it is these "adaptations" which build up over time to cause "evolution". There are no processes to keep things as they were, it's not like after 5000 mutations our body has a little back up blueprint to check if things have gone too far off course.
That's just semantics, I was refering to the biological adaptation.
You know? When people say that certain species of moths going from white (to camoflage with tree lichen) to black (to camoflage with soot) during the industrial revolution, or bacterium swapping enzymes to break down organic matter to enzymes that break down plastics in recent history, or humans developing heterozygous sickle cell to resist malaria is "adaptation".
It's silly to acknowledge these, but to dismiss them as not being evolution by calling them "adaptations", when it is these "adaptations" which build up over time to cause "evolution". There are no processes to keep things as they were, it's not like after 5000 mutations our body has a little back up blueprint to check if things have gone too far off course.
| BBcode: | |
| Hide post links |
-
trashtalkr
- Sports Guru
- Posts: 7978
- Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 8:20 pm
- Contact:
but they are different.
if it was evolution, then the moth would evolve into something other than a moth, not stay a moth. if it stays a moth, then it's adaptation.
evolution implies that they evolve into something different all together
if it was evolution, then the moth would evolve into something other than a moth, not stay a moth. if it stays a moth, then it's adaptation.
evolution implies that they evolve into something different all together
"If there were no eternal consciousness in a man, if at the bottom of everything there were only a wild ferment, a power that twisting in dark passions produced everything great or inconsequential; if an unfathomable insatiable emptiness lay hid beneath everything, what would life be but despair?"
Soren Kierkegaard
Soren Kierkegaard
| BBcode: | |
| Hide post links |
-
Cicada
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:59 pm
QUOTE(trashtalkr)but they are different.
if it was evolution, then the moth would evolve into something other than a moth, not stay a moth. if it stays a moth, then it's adaptation.
evolution implies that they evolve into something different all together
No.
You see, to walk a step, you put one foot in front of the other, to walk a mile, you just do this process hundreds of times. Walking a step and walking a mile use the same process, it's just a question of time and distance.
You see, to adapt, you have an individual in a population mutate in a beneficial way and then procreate, to evolve, you just "mutate in a positive way and then procreate" thousand of times. Adapting and evolving use the same process, it's just a question of time and distance.
If you have a word, and then you change one letter at a time, will you eventually end up with a completely different word?
If you can outline the process which prevents mutations from compounding please go ahead, but such a process doesn't exist. If it did, all the wolves that now fit into purses and yap would commit magical seppeku.
if it was evolution, then the moth would evolve into something other than a moth, not stay a moth. if it stays a moth, then it's adaptation.
evolution implies that they evolve into something different all together
No.
You see, to walk a step, you put one foot in front of the other, to walk a mile, you just do this process hundreds of times. Walking a step and walking a mile use the same process, it's just a question of time and distance.
You see, to adapt, you have an individual in a population mutate in a beneficial way and then procreate, to evolve, you just "mutate in a positive way and then procreate" thousand of times. Adapting and evolving use the same process, it's just a question of time and distance.
If you have a word, and then you change one letter at a time, will you eventually end up with a completely different word?
If you can outline the process which prevents mutations from compounding please go ahead, but such a process doesn't exist. If it did, all the wolves that now fit into purses and yap would commit magical seppeku.
| BBcode: | |
| Hide post links |
-
AYHJA
- 392
- Posts: 37990
- Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 2:25 pm
- Location: Washington, D.C.
- Contact:
Cicada, while I see the point you're trying to make, it just doesn't make sense to say it here...Quite simply, I don't think that they would be two seperate words, if they were meant to imply the exact same thing, with little or more emphasis...
IE, it is not the difference between walking, and strutting, that we are talking about...To say somone walked across the coals, is not the same as saying somone strutted across the coals...Words are important, especially in their usage...Lets move away from the entire history of the world for a moment, and talk what we know...
If you were a person that lived around people all of your life, and were forced to live in the wild among apes...You would NOT eventually become an ape...To start as one thing, and end up as another, is evolution...The point has been made that each one has traces of the other, and that is not the dispute...
You may develop certain characteristics that will help you entertain your enviroment (adaptation)...But it is my distinct belief that you will not, and I don't care how long of a time you assess to it, become an entirely different species...
IE, it is not the difference between walking, and strutting, that we are talking about...To say somone walked across the coals, is not the same as saying somone strutted across the coals...Words are important, especially in their usage...Lets move away from the entire history of the world for a moment, and talk what we know...
If you were a person that lived around people all of your life, and were forced to live in the wild among apes...You would NOT eventually become an ape...To start as one thing, and end up as another, is evolution...The point has been made that each one has traces of the other, and that is not the dispute...
You may develop certain characteristics that will help you entertain your enviroment (adaptation)...But it is my distinct belief that you will not, and I don't care how long of a time you assess to it, become an entirely different species...
| BBcode: | |
| Hide post links |
-
Aemeth
- Posts: 1280
- Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:37 am
yea..i think AYHJA has the best example so far...
All of a sudden the world all becomes water..
after 939823590172 years, yes we may have adapted feet and hands that are very weblike, and other things of that nature..
But evolution would imply that eventually we would grow gills..in my opinion, that is just not logical..
word?
All of a sudden the world all becomes water..
after 939823590172 years, yes we may have adapted feet and hands that are very weblike, and other things of that nature..
But evolution would imply that eventually we would grow gills..in my opinion, that is just not logical..
word?
| BBcode: | |
| Hide post links |