a "yom" (the word translated "day") is simple a period of time in between two other relevant events.
It translates as many other words than day, in the total 1931 times it appears in the Tanakh. Other translations include "when, if, lifetime, year, "a day's journey", time, yesterday, tomorrow... and Chronicle, as defined as a stage of development."
The translation "Day" is not the only possibility, and it is likely that the word was intended to mean multiple things within the same "verse."
BTW: I asked the world how old she was, and she told me she was only 29, but that is what she told me last year...and the year before.
vertical,
raum
The Flood
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raum
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AYHJA
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^^
All the more interesting a concept, and why this part of the forum will thrive longer than any other....Where does the billion year concept come from anyway..?
At anyrate...
QUOTE(Genesis 6:15-16)This is how you shall make it. The length of the ship will be three hundred cubits, its breadth fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits. Â 6:16 You shall make a roof in the ship, and you shall finish it to a cubit upward. You shall set the door of the ship in its side. You shall make it with lower, second, and third levels.
A cubit is about .5 meters, or 1.5 feet tall...So, according to those measurements, Noahs Ark was about 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high...Not exactly the titanic, but not Jigga's yacht, either...
So, the thing is, two of each, but there are probably certain joints that need not have gotten in the arc...I stil think that it could have been done...Do I think that it was comfortable..? No...By no means...And a bit further down, he got them in more than pairs...So, the ark wasn't luxurious, but it was certainly spacious...
All the more interesting a concept, and why this part of the forum will thrive longer than any other....Where does the billion year concept come from anyway..?
At anyrate...
QUOTE(Genesis 6:15-16)This is how you shall make it. The length of the ship will be three hundred cubits, its breadth fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits. Â 6:16 You shall make a roof in the ship, and you shall finish it to a cubit upward. You shall set the door of the ship in its side. You shall make it with lower, second, and third levels.
A cubit is about .5 meters, or 1.5 feet tall...So, according to those measurements, Noahs Ark was about 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high...Not exactly the titanic, but not Jigga's yacht, either...
So, the thing is, two of each, but there are probably certain joints that need not have gotten in the arc...I stil think that it could have been done...Do I think that it was comfortable..? No...By no means...And a bit further down, he got them in more than pairs...So, the ark wasn't luxurious, but it was certainly spacious...
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x3n
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Not nearly enough to hold pairs of all species tho, or is there a nice little loophole to this one as well?...
I don't discount the Ark's existence, or the fact that it might have carried animals and/or even plants (although I don't remember that mentioned).
Depending on how you classify them...there should be around 1.5 million species...in the immortal words of Roy Scheider in Jaws: "we're gonna need a bigger boat".
I don't discount the Ark's existence, or the fact that it might have carried animals and/or even plants (although I don't remember that mentioned).
Depending on how you classify them...there should be around 1.5 million species...in the immortal words of Roy Scheider in Jaws: "we're gonna need a bigger boat".
Dude, of course she's gonna dig it...your mom loves the cock
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trashtalkr
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^^That is big enough to hold most species. Many of the animals we have today are the result of different species of animals reproducing. THere were many different levels of the Ark. Most of the species could of fit
"If there were no eternal consciousness in a man, if at the bottom of everything there were only a wild ferment, a power that twisting in dark passions produced everything great or inconsequential; if an unfathomable insatiable emptiness lay hid beneath everything, what would life be but despair?"
Soren Kierkegaard
Soren Kierkegaard
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Aemeth
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raum
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the word "species" becomes inopeartive in a discussion of Noah's ark.
It makes no sense "God" would tell "Noah" to grab one pair of each species, and seven pairs of each used for kosher food, when thousands of species haved died and adapted throughout the short time we have recordeing species developement.
There was no study of species, and no concept of extinction present.
Also, keep in mind about 2,800 years before "Noah" building the ark, a legend of a Babylonian named Up-Napthish who did the same thing when Ea took it upon himself to destroy the world with a flood, and Up-Naphtish saw it in a dream (and it is essentially the same story with a few arbitrary exceptions). Ea must have more water, though,.. cause it only took him six days to flood it. And Up-Napthish was more thoughtful of his fellow man, taking his family, and a crew for the boat... or maybe he just didn't know how to sail.
vertical,
raum
It makes no sense "God" would tell "Noah" to grab one pair of each species, and seven pairs of each used for kosher food, when thousands of species haved died and adapted throughout the short time we have recordeing species developement.
There was no study of species, and no concept of extinction present.
Also, keep in mind about 2,800 years before "Noah" building the ark, a legend of a Babylonian named Up-Napthish who did the same thing when Ea took it upon himself to destroy the world with a flood, and Up-Naphtish saw it in a dream (and it is essentially the same story with a few arbitrary exceptions). Ea must have more water, though,.. cause it only took him six days to flood it. And Up-Napthish was more thoughtful of his fellow man, taking his family, and a crew for the boat... or maybe he just didn't know how to sail.
vertical,
raum
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x3n
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ok, I'm definitely willing to sit through this one...
RAUM lightbringer, there is solid evidence of this flood, so I def. wanna read up on what you could throw at me regarding this, I wanna take in some new info on this particular story, since I never really gave it credit beyond the entertainment factor. I'm asking you 'cause I'm just not feeling the Bible as far as this event is concerned.
No offense meant to anyone, but...this careless use of the term "most", well...it used to be a pair of each, now it's "most". My English might ain't not be so not good, but "most"...is quite a fucking LOT when referring to beasts. Uncomfortable would be an understatement, the joint wasn't even close to an ocean liner. I'm leaving the logistics of accomdations for hungry animals and their chosen pray being in tight quarters, and i'm leaving the process of getting all of them in, in time, side-by-side in line.
RAUM, I take it apart from the story you mentioned, there are other accounts that might correlate this event?
RAUM lightbringer, there is solid evidence of this flood, so I def. wanna read up on what you could throw at me regarding this, I wanna take in some new info on this particular story, since I never really gave it credit beyond the entertainment factor. I'm asking you 'cause I'm just not feeling the Bible as far as this event is concerned.
No offense meant to anyone, but...this careless use of the term "most", well...it used to be a pair of each, now it's "most". My English might ain't not be so not good, but "most"...is quite a fucking LOT when referring to beasts. Uncomfortable would be an understatement, the joint wasn't even close to an ocean liner. I'm leaving the logistics of accomdations for hungry animals and their chosen pray being in tight quarters, and i'm leaving the process of getting all of them in, in time, side-by-side in line.
RAUM, I take it apart from the story you mentioned, there are other accounts that might correlate this event?
Dude, of course she's gonna dig it...your mom loves the cock
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raum
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errata
My babylonian is a bit rusty.
i got the name wrong...Utnapishtim, ([pronounced - Oot-Nafishteem])
simple mistake, no...
anyways, looking up utnapishtim gives a huge wealth of knowledge...
the "approximate" translation is here: http://www.piney.com/Gil11.html
(I had to look up a few before finding a good one, but this one takes the cake)
there, Petey, ya happy? /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />
btw: xen, I can count over thirty flood legends which appear in my book shelf alone. Sumatra, China, Hawaii (a no-brainer, if you ask me), Wales, Scotland, *The Nordic Edas have evidence*, Egypt, India, Peru, Vietnam, and at least 6 of the indigeous peoples of North America!
Of note, is a good deal of them involve the release and return of a dove (or similar bird) to signify that there is again dry land.
Examples:
Africa, in Southwest Tanzania
Once upon a time the rivers began to flood. The god told two people to get into a ship. He told them to take lots of seed and to take lots of animals. The water of the flood eventually covered the mountains. Finally the flood stopped. Then one of the men, wanting to know if the water had dried up let a dove loose. The dove returned. Later he let loose a hawk which did not return. Then the men left the boat and took the animals and the seeds with them.
Sumerian
Finally things calmed and the ship settled on the top of Mount Nisir. After the ship had rested for seven days Utnapishtim let loose a dove. Since the land had not dried the dove returned. Next he sent a swallow which also returned. Later he let loose a raven which never returned since the ground had dried. Utnapishtim then left the ship
China
The Chinese classic called the Hihking tells about "the family of Fuhi," that was saved from a great flood. This ancient story tells that the entire land was flooded; the mountains and everything, however one family survived in a boat. The Chinese consider this man the father of their civilization. This record indicates that Fuhi, his wife, three sons, and three daughters were the only people that escaped the great flood, and came out of their boat when they released a song bird that returned. It is claimed, that he and his family were the only people alive on earth, and repopulated the world.
Aztec-
A man named Tapi lived a long time ago. Tapi was a very pious man. The creator told Tapi to build a boat that he would live in. He was told that he should take his wife, a pair of every animal that was alive into this boat. Naturally everyone thought he was crazy. Then the rain started and the flood came. The men and animals tried to climb the mountains but the mountains became flooded as well. Finally the rain ended. Tapi decided that the water had dried up when he let a dove loose that did not return.
The Ojibwe natives
There came a time when the harmonious way of life did not continue. Men and women disrespected each other, families quarreled and soon villages began arguing back and forth. This saddened Gitchie Manido [the Creator] greatly, but he waited. Finally, when it seemed there was no hope left, Creator decided to purify Mother Earth through the use of water. The water came, flooding the Earth, catching all of creation off guard. All but a few of each living thing survived. Then it tells how Waynaboozhoo survived by floating on a log in the water with various animals.
Of all of these, the oldest (as far as we know) is the "deluge which devoured the world" sent by Ea, the Sumerian god of music, to destroy all mankind, and in particular the City of Ur (where Enoch, grandfather of Noah, was born in the Torah, mind you... see how its all connected), that only Utnapishtim, his family and crew, and his cubic boat full of "mating pairs and the seed of all that you need to live" (including plants, i imagine.) We know Ur is the oldest city (properly called as such) in recorded histroy, or physical evidence... so, why is this still a debate, when it is at least *planetary*, IF NOT UNIVERSAL, that it happened.
vertical,
raum
i got the name wrong...Utnapishtim, ([pronounced - Oot-Nafishteem])
simple mistake, no...
anyways, looking up utnapishtim gives a huge wealth of knowledge...
the "approximate" translation is here: http://www.piney.com/Gil11.html
(I had to look up a few before finding a good one, but this one takes the cake)
there, Petey, ya happy? /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />
btw: xen, I can count over thirty flood legends which appear in my book shelf alone. Sumatra, China, Hawaii (a no-brainer, if you ask me), Wales, Scotland, *The Nordic Edas have evidence*, Egypt, India, Peru, Vietnam, and at least 6 of the indigeous peoples of North America!
Of note, is a good deal of them involve the release and return of a dove (or similar bird) to signify that there is again dry land.
Examples:
Africa, in Southwest Tanzania
Once upon a time the rivers began to flood. The god told two people to get into a ship. He told them to take lots of seed and to take lots of animals. The water of the flood eventually covered the mountains. Finally the flood stopped. Then one of the men, wanting to know if the water had dried up let a dove loose. The dove returned. Later he let loose a hawk which did not return. Then the men left the boat and took the animals and the seeds with them.
Sumerian
Finally things calmed and the ship settled on the top of Mount Nisir. After the ship had rested for seven days Utnapishtim let loose a dove. Since the land had not dried the dove returned. Next he sent a swallow which also returned. Later he let loose a raven which never returned since the ground had dried. Utnapishtim then left the ship
China
The Chinese classic called the Hihking tells about "the family of Fuhi," that was saved from a great flood. This ancient story tells that the entire land was flooded; the mountains and everything, however one family survived in a boat. The Chinese consider this man the father of their civilization. This record indicates that Fuhi, his wife, three sons, and three daughters were the only people that escaped the great flood, and came out of their boat when they released a song bird that returned. It is claimed, that he and his family were the only people alive on earth, and repopulated the world.
Aztec-
A man named Tapi lived a long time ago. Tapi was a very pious man. The creator told Tapi to build a boat that he would live in. He was told that he should take his wife, a pair of every animal that was alive into this boat. Naturally everyone thought he was crazy. Then the rain started and the flood came. The men and animals tried to climb the mountains but the mountains became flooded as well. Finally the rain ended. Tapi decided that the water had dried up when he let a dove loose that did not return.
The Ojibwe natives
There came a time when the harmonious way of life did not continue. Men and women disrespected each other, families quarreled and soon villages began arguing back and forth. This saddened Gitchie Manido [the Creator] greatly, but he waited. Finally, when it seemed there was no hope left, Creator decided to purify Mother Earth through the use of water. The water came, flooding the Earth, catching all of creation off guard. All but a few of each living thing survived. Then it tells how Waynaboozhoo survived by floating on a log in the water with various animals.
Of all of these, the oldest (as far as we know) is the "deluge which devoured the world" sent by Ea, the Sumerian god of music, to destroy all mankind, and in particular the City of Ur (where Enoch, grandfather of Noah, was born in the Torah, mind you... see how its all connected), that only Utnapishtim, his family and crew, and his cubic boat full of "mating pairs and the seed of all that you need to live" (including plants, i imagine.) We know Ur is the oldest city (properly called as such) in recorded histroy, or physical evidence... so, why is this still a debate, when it is at least *planetary*, IF NOT UNIVERSAL, that it happened.
vertical,
raum
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AYHJA
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^^
And this leaves me with an even more burning question...
I too, have read that there is overwhelming evidence to support that at one time, there were no seasons pretty much, which would allow for the dinosaurs and all other things take place...So, while it may be safe to say that the flood did happen, how everything survived this flood, is what I want to know, all the stories have some sort of vessel involved, and I guess, the only things let to ponder are teh size of this vessel and what was in it...
So, what is a good consensus on what happened, in terms of surviving..?
** runs to study and answer own question..
And this leaves me with an even more burning question...
I too, have read that there is overwhelming evidence to support that at one time, there were no seasons pretty much, which would allow for the dinosaurs and all other things take place...So, while it may be safe to say that the flood did happen, how everything survived this flood, is what I want to know, all the stories have some sort of vessel involved, and I guess, the only things let to ponder are teh size of this vessel and what was in it...
So, what is a good consensus on what happened, in terms of surviving..?
** runs to study and answer own question..
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Pete
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Yep adiriel, I'm happy!
I've actually heard the Babylonian story, I read it in a children's (about 10-13yrs) history book. I reckoned even back then that was probably Noah, or the Babylonian version of the story (or vice versa).
I think it's pretty certain a flood happened, as the sea level has been like a yo-yo throughout the Quaternary. I know for a fact, not because of literature, but because I researched it for real. I did a project studying the local sea level change in Pioneer Bay of Orpheus Island (Central Great Barrier Reef Lagoon) over the last 6,500 years, using the heights of microatolls. I'll post some pics soon.
A fall in sea level allowed the Aborigines to walk to Australia, from the South East Asian Islands (well, they probably could sail anyway back then). Rising and falling sea levels is what made the Great Barrier Reef so "great".
So definitely, the sea rose during the times of ancient civilisations, as recorded in the rock and fossil records. Someone must have got the thought, whether from a higher power or not, to take his family and every living being as possible and escape being drowned by rising waters.
I've actually heard the Babylonian story, I read it in a children's (about 10-13yrs) history book. I reckoned even back then that was probably Noah, or the Babylonian version of the story (or vice versa).
I think it's pretty certain a flood happened, as the sea level has been like a yo-yo throughout the Quaternary. I know for a fact, not because of literature, but because I researched it for real. I did a project studying the local sea level change in Pioneer Bay of Orpheus Island (Central Great Barrier Reef Lagoon) over the last 6,500 years, using the heights of microatolls. I'll post some pics soon.
A fall in sea level allowed the Aborigines to walk to Australia, from the South East Asian Islands (well, they probably could sail anyway back then). Rising and falling sea levels is what made the Great Barrier Reef so "great".
So definitely, the sea rose during the times of ancient civilisations, as recorded in the rock and fossil records. Someone must have got the thought, whether from a higher power or not, to take his family and every living being as possible and escape being drowned by rising waters.
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