Free Will.....

#31

If God knows everything and can already see what we're doing, then that means that we don't have a choice to do it. God already knows that we're going to do it. I'm not saying he makes us do things, but he knows it, so we have no choice not to do it.

#32

re-read my last post..

im saying, our future thoughts, though they havent happened for us, have happened in our mind in God's eyes..so maybe it is the free will that we will demonstrate in the future that determines the future..though we dont know what that is yet, God does, yet even if he knows, it could still mean that we chose what we wanted, even if we havent chose it yet since we are constricted by time..

idk

#33

You guys confuse the fuck out of me...And I try to understand too, I really do...You guys have a knack for seemingly ignoring the rest of the thread completely, before dropping some more "ill" ideas...

I'm still not understanding why you guys seem to think that it is plausible for God to know our thoughts, and we still exist in a meaningful way to him...It's utterly confusing...

#34

You don't believe that God is all-knowing? If he's all-knowing, then he knows our thoughts. If he's not all-knowing, then we all more powerful than him in the sense that our choice and override his plan

#35

um, where does God say "I am all-knowing?"

nowhere.

what happens is his worshippers say, "you are all-knowing"
what happens is his prophets say "Our God is all -knowing."
what happens is we create the idea of an "All-knowing God."

sounds pretty new-age to me.

The God of the bible is suprised by the actions of a single man (Adam), on several occasions (oh yeah, what about Cain). He does not anticipate the movements of satan (Job), nor does he know the capacities of his own worshippers devotion (Job, again). He gives the wrong military advice to the armies of his beloved chosen ones, so if he does know all, that means he is capable of lying, for he says "I will grant you victory" and delivers them into defeat. What God lies to his champion?

vertical,
raum

#36

^^

My sentiments exactly...The fact that God knows all, and still allows us to exist...Well, to me, that just goes against everything...I do believe God has a plan, and it is similar to the owner of a professional sports organization...

Win ball games = The Plan

So,with the way you guys are going about this, if you owned a professional sports team...And you knew everything about every player...Even down to their first choke...You shouldn't loose a game, right..? No such thing as a bad draft...

God knowing evetything totally betrays us as humans, and our entire way of life, IMO...

#37

I read something about this..a catholic theologian named Thomas Aquinas pointed out that God cannot act/know/change what is logically possible..God cannot make a square round because nothing can be square and round at the same time. In the same way, we do not have to expect him to be able to know the future because it is not logically possible..

That was his arguement..

I think it has some truth, but at the same time, God knows every psychological thing about us, does he not? If he knows 100% of us, he knows what decisions we are bound to make..right?

#38

yeah, deeje

Thomas Aquinas is one of the great theologians.

He makes good arguments, and his words ring of clear humble truth.

No, Deeje, God does not know every psychological thing about us, for that part of our psychology that we call "ego" is removed from God, in exile. How could God exile us, and then dwell upon our psychology, which is divinely designed? What nature of God does that reflect?

What god would create such conflict willingly, and present himself as the author of harmony? The answer is simple, NONE.

God operates on a scale so immense that our psychology is insignificant. It is, if anything, an obstacle to his achievement. Yet, it is his very greatest gift to us. How can this be? Simple, we are to be as God.

vertical,
raum

#39

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...........

#40

I think it's because of the Law of Opposites. As philosopher Jacob Boehme said, "in order for Yes to be Yes there had to be a No otherwise Yes would have no meaning."

It's the same with good and evil. God had to ordain evil so that we would know what was good.