Luke 23:43

#1

42Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[a]"

43Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

Now raum, it seems to me that you been stressin' the whole reincarnation thing until you "make" it to heaven with God, but this verse, the way I can understand it, supports a heaven/hell theory where one goes to either upon loss of consciousness caused by death..

Please educate..

#2

The verse says Paradise...Or so you say...

#3

Is Paradise Heaven?

#4

Beats me..If I had to guess I would say probably..

#5

paradeisos is a greek word for the persian pardec. it is literally an enclosed hunting ground with large game with walls and towers around it that only the privelidged were allowed in.. The word, and the structure is of persian origin, and was popular in Babylon.

the concept was taken and adopted by the Jews, to indicate a hunting ground reserved for those loyal to God but passed from the earth.

Paradeisos is "Happy Hunting Grounds"

The word means no such thing as "Heaven"

Without a huge history lesson, lemme translate this:

"hey, Jeshua. When you make it to the top, remember ya boy."

"Man, you already know where I keep the kool-aid and the remote! You are welcome in that crib anytime, anywhere. Thanks, for reals, man. me cusa est su casa."

vertical,
raum

#6

LMAO!!! I love the translation

#7

I am afraid I still do not quite understand /sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />

#8

Deeje,

A man said to Jesu "remember when you come into power."

Jesu replied "for what you are doing for me, I have already made you a reservation at the country club, got the spare bedroom ready, and got you a rentla car when you come to town."

I.E. He was showing his utmost gratitude.

Got it?

BUT...

This happens before Jesu finds out he is going to be crucified, in the Garden of Gesthemane. He thought he was going to become the King of the Jews, on this planet, and lead a revolution.

See, the Messiach comes in two ways, "The Conquering King" and the "Suffering Servant." Jesu thought he would be the Conquering King, but in the Garden, he finds he is to be the suffering servant. He even cries aloud,

"Hey God, Dad, man why send me down here to die,.. man TO MUTHA FUCKING DIE? LIKE A THIEF, LIKE A POWERLESS CHUMP!!! I THOUGHT? I?? WAS TO BE... king. This must be a mistake, Lord. If My destiny is death, to ... (ulp) die? then, please give me a sign."

That is the first time he is sees his destiny, and he knows. He's kinda freaked out. He comes out and all of his apostles are sleeping on watch. Even"Peter." Jesus's dismay and anger is evident when he calls him "simon" and say "damn, man... can't ya'll even be trusted to keep awake why I went to go pray a minute???? Thought ya'll was my boys." Soon, and real soon thereafter, Judas shows up to reveal him. His disciples say, "yo, g, we gona go down fighting, huh??? He says, "nope,.. this is the plan, I go with them, and ya'll don't try and stop them."

This is, to me, one of the most important parts of the story, cause it shows Jesu's disciples (and perhapas even himself) were "strapped," even though their message was peace.

Matthew26 (36-50)
Mark 14 (32-46)
Luke22 (39-49)
John 18 (1-2)

This Garden, is Gesthemane in Aramaic; Gath Shemen in Hebrew.

Gath "a wine press" derived from Nagan "a player, a minstrel"
(thus, in Hebrew a "wine press" is that which makes "music" from grapes")

and

Shemen "oil" derived from Shaman "to grow fat" (a sign of prosperity)

Thus, the name is "oil-press."

It is in the oil press that the olive (a symbol of peace) was pressed, so the annointing oil could be prepared for the Coronation of the Son of God, who brings exceeding bounty to the table of humanity for the Feast of his death. This is where Jesu is revealed by Judas, and the basis for the Communion of the Holy Sacrament.

vertical,
raum

#9

QUOTE
This happens before Jesu finds out he is going to be crucified, in the Garden of Gesthemane. He thought he was going to become the King of the Jews, on this planet, and lead a revolution. Â

Raum, much of what you state is correct, but I've got to call you on this one. The quote from verse 42 is from the thief beside him on the cross at Golgotha after he rebukes the other thief for mocking Jesus. Thus, it is well after Jesus knew he was going to be crucified... he was already there! It could be said that Jesus merely made his statement to the thief to ease the suffering of a fellow condemned man, but I don't subscribe to that way of thinking. I believe that because the thief showed respect and concern for Jesus even at the height of his own suffering, Jesus let him know of his admission into Paradise/Heaven.

#10

This paradeisos sounds synonymous (but not exactly) the New Forest, which is in south-east England.

@ Raum,

That scene you described, that is when Jesu is so stressed out, his veins burst in his forehead, pouring into his sweat glands, so it looks like he is sweating blood?