Free Will.....

#71

CDR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#72

This isnt about omnipotency..its about God knowing the future..how could he reveal visions to Daniel, Paul and whoever else if he didnt know Himself?

The problem I have with free will though, is that just because God doesnt choose for us, doesnt mean we do. I believe that every choice we make, if broken down, relies upon our genetics and our environment..thats what makes free will hard for me 2 accept..

#73

WHAT..???

Holy shit, you just confused me big time...And only in a few sentences..!

I still don't understand how you can justify our existing, if God knows our every move...Perhaps you could just answer me that...The implications of that, are much more illogical than believing in a destiny...

#74

AYHJA...I don't know references but I know that they are in the Bible cuz I have read them before

First, it says that every hair on our head is numbered. In another spot it says that God knows every hair on our head.

Second, in Psalms it says that God knew us before we were born

Third, in the Gospels it repeats again and again that Jesus knew what they were thinking. Jesus was God on Earth

I'm sure there are more but those are what I can think of right now

#75

A..

God has known/knows/will know our every move, and it is fulfilling for him because we are choosing them...Yes, in God's view, we have already chosen some actions, are choosing them, and will choose them all at the same time because time is N/A..

but still, i think all our attempts to reason this out will be futile since we are unconsciously programed by chronology..honestly, how can the possibility that God does not yet know what we have chosen since he exists outside of time, as well as at the same time he does know what we will choose since he is timeless, supposta to make any sense to us?? its a contradiction 2 us..but i think the truth is somewhere along these lines..

but let us continue..

#76

Answer this for me Saintlz,

You say you believe in an omnipotent God, out of fear of there not being a God... because the alternative frightens you. That is not belief, for one. I would say that You HOPE there is a God, though you have no evidence.

but still, you say you believe in God, so we will let that stick.

Then you say you do not believe in Free Will, mainly cause it contradicts belief in God. and of course, because you have no evidence, and this is a hope that keeps fear out of the mind, it must not contradict itself. That would be uncomfortable.

Then, you say you do not believe in Holy Writ, of any religion of denomination.

How do reconcile man having no free will of his own, and thus God's will is manifest (unless you believe man can choose evil, and evil has a will independent and defiant of God.) with the idea that there is something man can create (like The holy Writ) that is not the will of God?

Therefore, you may believe in an all-powerful God, as I do,.. you may even believe humans have a part in this beings expression as this being, as I do. You may believe humans exist to learn the responsibility of the power that is their divine birthright as I do. But you seem to have a problem believing a person can explore the possibilities of this through writing and reading, while iu believe exactly the opposite. I believe we express ourselves through the Arts and Sciences, and even the Religions to "exercise" our focus to even maintain an existence after our physical form has ceased to support our life.

Note, it is not one Book that supports my ideas,.. it is ALL BOOKS and WORDS. I believe there is something sacred about the process of recording thought in word and image and composed sound. I actually believe all things are sacred. I believe in an Omnipotent Omnipresent Omniscient Deity who extends into limited forms to interact with us. Those forms are Mailik, Allu, Alfen, Cu Sith, Heralds, Misinsters,.. call them what you will - they are his Angels. That is Aggelos - Messengers. There forms and their means of interacting with us are their message. They are instruments of God's will defined by their singular purpose.

You could argue you believe in a God who doesn't attend to the lives of men, but then why should you imagine The God would then attend to their existence after they pass from the Life He exists to grant them?

How do you deal with this contradiction?

vertical,
raum

#77

I am not challenging your beliefs... I am asking about the resolution of the incontinuity.

For the record, Evil is also the will of God in my thinking.

I do not say that all writing is the bible, I say all symbols, and thus all words are sacred, whther for evil of good; They are instrumental to God's will, which encompasses man's. There is a difference.

As far as hope and belief... I believe that hope, is "despite lack of evidence, I will choose to adhere to a perspective."

Belief is "I will accept that experience that could make evident god's existence."

I do not believe it is a person's choice to believe or not. i believe it is just in your nature. I also do not believe a person knows what they believe until they face death or true fear, when the persona goes to shit and the person's essence comes to the forefront.

I also believe that man has choice, but not "free" will. Then again, beyond mistranslation, the bible says that. I believe man's will is intrinsically connected to God's plan, whether Good or Evil.