Nature Vs Nurture

#11

LG, hereditary stuff is more than just your eye color and shit..

Haven't you noticed that you tend to think the same way as your parents sometimes, etc? Have you noticed that you were doing primitive forms of your hobbies now b4 you were even old enough to realize it? Shit, in 4th grade we used to use "Lucky Bucks" (rewards for doing good things) to be able to buy candy and shit. I went to Fred Meyer, bought better candy, and damn near ran the teacher outta biz till she told me I couldnt do it any more. Now I'm sellin' anything I can get my hands on pretty much. The goth kids turn out like that because, I think, genetically how their brain is when they were born.

And you can try ta change but thas jus the top laya/
Man, you was who you was, before you got here/

That's Jay-Z if anyone didnt know, and I think he makes a good point there. Some ppl think your environment determines who you are, but you have been choosing your own environment since before you were aware you were doing it..That initial choice to play football at recess in 3rd grade instead of playing tag had to come from somewhere other that "your environmental influence"...And while the environment does have an effect on us, we choose, intrinsically, what environment we would like to surround ourselves with.

#12

Some in hereditary but a lot of it is our suroundings and enviroment. What LG said makes sense. What happens in your life affects you and your views on other things. Some is hereditary but not all of it

#13

perhaps it is a testimony to my strength, but I tend to think I influence my environment more than it influences me.

I have the choice to do the human-instinctual thing for me to do... and I do it. It is in fact not related to my environment, or the environment of my development.

I would say my studies and meditations have more influence on me than my environment, and in all those choices of influences, I am the sole discrimnating party.

vertical,
raum

the self-manifest.

#14

But hasn't your education and the study you've done under others been part of your "nurture"? Granted, perhaps at this point in your life, you've taken control of your life and your environment, but isn't part of that due to the teachings you've received? Just tossing out some food for thought.

#15

deep,

I thought about that before I made my statement. To answer truthfully, no. I don't think it has much. I think it has been part of my nature to study with them, on an archetypal level.

They were as faculties for accessing components of my own nature, rather than as external points of direction towards realization. It is why, true to the Rosicrucian teachings that now I do not need them, they are gone to my senses, and wh they were not there before I was ready to acknowledge the truths they introduced me to. The thing is; THEY NEVER DEFINED WHAT THOSE TRUTHS, IN FACT, ARE. They just acknowledged that they were symbolic of my thresholds of realization. Then, each one of them, as all transient things, came to pass.

still, when I look at myself, none of them have marked their passing through my life in anyway that they controlled, and I alone have been the sole architect of the monument to their tutelage that I have become.

Now, I have been transformed, but that was entirely in my nature, as well- and while many of my teachers and mentors acknowledged it, none facilitated it, and to many of them it was a mystery. I was told by one of my teachers, "I feel as though everything I have accumulated is but a precusor to your understanding of it."

I simply thought "I should be so lucky, for it is in teaching, we are made immortal, even as we make of ourselves the greaest sacrifice by becoming the obstacle to the student's own Mastery."

I know better now...

it is not that everyone exists in our minds, but rather there is one mind that encompasses us all,.. if there is only but one of us all.

vertical,
raum

vertical,
raum

vertical,
raum

#16

Now I could be entirely wrong, seeing as how you need a dictionary and two cups of coffee to interpret raum's posts, but I think he was going with nature. And in that case, I agree.

LG, you said that your dad telling you jokes all the time rubbed off on you and made you the class clown that you are today. But you have a twin brother who is about as amusing as a peice of bark. I'm going to assume that you're dad told equal amounts of jokes with him when you were growing up, because you were most likely almost always together- and if that's the case, then why is he so...lame? (Not to be mean or anything- but it's the truth)

And one of the most frequent arguments that comes up in this debate is that if you tell a child they're a peice of shit while they're growing up, they'll believe that for the rest of their lives. How is it then, that despite the fact my mother called (and still calls) me an ungrateful bitch and useless whore, among other things- that I don't have low self esteem or fear of people. Granted now I know that it's her condition, not her, doing the talking- when I didn't know the difference why didn't it affect me? She'd throw me agaist the wall and pull my hair if I came home with a B, but I don't shrink away from people (though to be honest I wince if she gives me a hug, lol). In any case, I'm going with nature for the simple fact that it makes more sense to me.

#17

^^

I like that scenario...Man, you are a great, great poster... /:D" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt=":D" />

I have laid down my little theory many a time, or so I think...I think we are all pre-programmed so to speak...

I'm not so familiar with the exacts of it, but there was once a psychologist that tried to test those waters, and did so at the expense of a family...He was convinced that if he dressed a male infant from birth to be a female that the child would eventually adapt...

They dressed him as a girl, treated him like a girl, bought him dolls and everything...Did that for a long time too...But, of course, that shit didn't work, and dude is pretty fucked up for life...But the enviroment deal didn't take...Dude is married with kids and likes cutting the grass and working on cars...

There are keys, however, to our personality and behavior that when mixed with a stimulus, will unlock certain things...It is hard to pinpoint those stimuli, but I do believe they are present in everyone...

#18

convince yourself,

I was saying there is only NATURE. i don't think NURTURING comes to you unless it is part of your nature.

vertical,
raum

#19

Wasn't there a book on that? Like called "X" or something? It sounds familiar...

"i don't think NURTURING comes to you unless it is part of your nature." :?: :?

#20

Yea, I feel u raum...that what I was tryna say...it's hard to explain though..