ADN

Well I think that true Atheism is a faith statement like any other -- just a statement about that persons belief about the Cosmos. And like any other faith statement, it deserves respect -- as long as the person understands that they are talking about faith, not proof...and they respect others beliefs as well. God can neither be proved nor disproved - only experienced. And my faith holds that God will not interfere with those who do not wish a relationship with him (at least not directly).

Anyway, many so called atheists are simply anti-religion - which given the way most religions look from the outside is not an irrational stance. When you probe the issues, they are with men not God.

The self-pity response is actually an entry point into something called "The Long Dark Night of the Soul" and is a passageway in to a stronger and greater faith, if one can persevere. At least in my humble opinion.

Adtz wrote:Anyway, many so called atheists are simply anti-religion

I miss you and deepdiver so much... :(

At any rate (great comment btw Fap, your English is either improving or I'm good at translating) what Adtz said is more or less what I'm hinting at...I find it hard for a rational person to completely disregard the notion of a higher power...That's what I meant by perception, as the notion of something greater than yourself is a humbling thought...I'm just not sure that 'true atheism' isn't the opposite end of a bible thumper, or someone who believes that God told them to strap a bomb to their chest and pull the string...I hold extremist views with little regard, if any...

fundamental athiests are as inept and spiritually atrophic as any other fundamentalist.

You are surrounded with the key of your existence... for you to discover.

I agree with Raum on fundamentalists.

About rational people and their notion of a higher power i disagree with Ayhja.
A rational person who does not believe in God comes into a situation (like me) of wishing to believe. That is different from having a notion of something greater or a higher power. Those people have enough troubles with (allow me to say) having understood that we get older, our close ones will die and above all that I Know I'll Die, for being so kind to convince or force believer people about there's no God.

What I'm saying about being rational is quite simple fap...Maybe I was not so clear...

For someone to flat out say, "There is no God," isn't a rational statement...That's different than someone saying, 'Well, there could be a God, but I don't believe there is,' which again, points out to the fact that they have to have some preconceived notion of God/Diety/Higher Power to even have that stance in the first place...That's what I mean about perception...Someone saying that there is or is not a God on the far end of the spectrum just doesn't seem to be the thought of someone who can accept or deny such a thing...Really doesn't have anything to do with anything we experience in life...

Ok, i got it now A.
To me when a someone says "There is no God" / "There is a God" is never a rational statement. It's just a declaration about where they're are situated in the discussion, and when they start explaining their convictions becomes nothing but the story and description about the path they took to reach where they are located now. (sorry for the dumb analogy)

Agreed...I hate it when all these people at this conservative school I go to look at my like I'm the devil himself when I say I am pretty sure God exists, but I could be wrong...

i find when dealing with "schools" tat i faire better in answering with wit and rhetoric than with open disclosure.

for example if someone asks me at school if I believe in God, I'd be more liable to reply
"What makes you think that that which is in the details can only be the Devil?"

Adtz wrote:Well I think that true Atheism is a faith statement like any other

Hardly. Its an "absence of faith" statement.

Do you believe in Muhammed as Prophet? In the divinity of the Dalai Llama? In Rama, Shiva, Vishnu? In Buddha, Quetzlcoatl, Ahura Mazda, Odin, and Zeus?

Even the most fervently religious people are generally mostly atheists-- even as they believe in their god, they deny the existence of everyone else's.

Atheists are simply the people who apply the same evidence standard to all claims of divinity; theists apply it to all-but-one (theirs).

To say "there is no evidence of God", when in fact we have never seen any objectively documented miracles or evidence of the supernatural is merely an observation of fact, not an act of faith.