Cain and Abel

#11

and here I thought this was going to be a discussion of the hack/crack tool.

emanon

#12

QUOTE(DeEje)@ my post that got ate

IF you happened to think about it before regarding it as a joke it would have not been discarded..

Abel owning a 9 would symbolize the pursuit of intellectual advance being worth it, for he would have been under far greater protection because of his mind power..

Secondly, he would have pulled it out to show Cain that tho intellect should be pursued, it needs to be managed properly. Power exhorted mindfully equals wisdom, unmindfully equals tyranny. Although Abel could shoot Cain, he refrained, while gaining respect as well..

Kids jumpin' to conclusions...*shakes head slowly*

It could have been a lesson for everyone..

Kids..??? Please don't try to bullshit a bullshitter...Abel having a 9mm is a fucking silly thing to say, I'm worried that you would even try to defend it...Again, if you don't want to talk seriously, then don't...Just don't ask others to read it, I know I'm not...It is one thing that I won't tolerate...If you don't dig what's being said, then then you refute or ask for more, please don't belittle everyone else here though, like we just came from the pep rally...One line posts, unexplained thoughts...Not what this part of the forum is about my friends, please don't disrespect the VU ideal, even if you don't care for it...

Thank you Sir...

Now... @ RAUM..

It says that he didn't "respect" his offering, not because it wasn't fit, but that because he either favored Abel, or Cain was being judged by the Lord...

Now...About it being a human sacrifice...I was under the impression that he was murdered, hence the whole little, "Am I my brother's keeper," bit of dialogue...

I am trying to recall the story open-minded, and objectively...And more and more, this is seeming to be more of a metaphor than anything...So, it is not the validity of the story I am into, while not refuting or confirming that it is in fact true...

#13

Abel sacrificed sheep, Cain sacrficed Grain (corn).

God refused Cain's sacrifice for it was nothing Qadosher - made living by blood. The killing of Abel was a sacrifice of his brother, not a cold murder, for there was no such concept - the very thing that Cain feared would happen to him.

And that Cain used the same blade to kill his brother that his brother used to slay his beast is traditional.

For this sacrifice, GOD GAVE CAIN A GIFT HE GAVE TO NO OTHER, NOT EVEN HIS ONLY SON. He made him "The Untouchable." He became the first "made" man. He walked the earth with God's "mark" as a warning to any who would dare to do him ANY HARM, and the severe penalty of God paying them back seven-fold. You know, payback's are a bitch, and in the bible, God's got a HUGE stable of purebloods.

So, please, tell me how is any of this *favored protection for the rest of his days* and *empire emerging from his bloodline* not a sign that God respected his offering of Abel? Furthermore, Cain became the leader of a people who were powerful beyond belief, and unstoppable except by their own iniquity- A people who dominated the entire world, before the flood, and the only bloodline that survives the torrent that destroys the world.

No one can look at the Bible and deny that. So, looking at Cain's resume, tell me - Did he reward him for it? You a lie unless you say yes.

Also, though, if you read the bible, you see when God says, "ok, no more human sacrifice." Before then, it was not only acceptable, but required.

vertical,
raum

#14

QUOTE(Genesis 4:3-16)3In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the LORD. 4But Abel brought fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.
6Then the LORD said to Cain, †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it.†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬?
8Now Cain said to his brother Abel, †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“Let†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢s go out to the field.†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬?‚£ And while they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother Abel and killed him.
9Then the LORD said to Cain, †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“Where is your brother Abel?†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬?
†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“I don†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢t know,†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬? he replied. †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“Am I my brother†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢s keeper?†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬?
10The LORD said, †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“What have you done? Listen! Your brother†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢s blood cries out to me from the ground. 11Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢s blood from your hand. 12When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth.†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬?
13Cain said to the LORD, †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“My punishment is more than I can bear. 14Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬?
15But the LORD said to him, †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“Not so; if anyone kills Cain, he will suffer vengeance seven times over.†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬? Then the LORD put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16So Cain went out from the LORD†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢S presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

From that it says that God wasn't pleased with Cain's offering because it wasn't what he required.

It also says that God didn't let anyone kill him for it to be a curse on Cain. The land wouldn't produce crops for him and life would be hard. God did that because he murdered his brother out of anger and jealousy. Cain didn't "sacrifice" Abel...he outright murdered him.

#15

Qain amar el hebel ach Shadeh quwm el hebel ach harag.

This is the Hebrew.

"Cain spoke his heart to his Abel, his brother, and they did arise, and Abel, his brother, was butchered.

The word "harag" (i.e. "slew") is no way connected to Ratsach (as in "You shall not murder." Exodus 20:13) Harag (Heh resh gimel) is an ancient root, of the Phoenician word to "prepare for a ritual offering." The reason is simple, no human has died, and everything that had died has been to the delight of the Lord, why then would any expectation exist that God would not be pleased? He has not said "do not kill your fellow man" yet, and will not for more than ten ages!

The Rabbis, who prefer to theologize narratively, construe a fascinating dialogue between God and Cain after history's first recorded murder. The pollution of Abel's blood renders the soil infertile and Cain is condemned to a life of "ceaseless wandering over the face of the earth (Genesis 4:12)." In the Hebrew, two synonymous nouns, na and nad, convey the full force of his fate "of ceaseless wandering."

Instantaneously, Cain atones for his sin (which he did not understand to be a sin), as if it is only in retrospect that he realizes the gravity of his act. "My punishment is too great to bear (Genesis 4:13)," he says. And then immediately adds, according to the midrash: "Look, God, you tolerate [the excesses] of all the world, but my sin You can't forgive? Your own prophet has described You as forgiving iniquity and remitting transgression (Micah 7:18).'" The plea has its intended effect. God is stirred by the remorse and the argument and drops half the sentence. The Torah simply records that: "Cain left the presence of the Lord and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden (Genesis 4:16)." The linguistic anomaly (the resemblance of "nad" and "Nod" along with the disappearance of the word "na" in the final line of Cain's story) implies that sincere prayer will not go wholly unanswered. Minimally, it is still partially effective. Cain is not doomed to a fate of endless wandering.

In fact, Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) in the Jewish High Holy Days, is a commemoration of God forgiving Cain of his sin, and not condemning him to the curse. This is the day of the year, through confession and atonement, God forgives all of their sins. And that is older than your whole English language perversion of The Torah, or the English language itself.

to Quote the Bible:

This shall be an eternal law for you: Each year on the 10th day of the 7th month you must afflict yourselves and not do any melachah. This is true for both the native born and the convert to Judaism who joins you. This is because on this day you shall have all your sins atoned, so that you will be cleansed. Before G-d you will be cleansed of all your sins. It is a Sabbath of Sabbaths to you, and a day upon which you must afflict yourselves. This is a law for all time.
-- Leviticus 16:29-31

The seventh month is Tishrei, and the tenth day of Tishrei is the day we call Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement. Actually, the Torah calls it Yom Kippurim, a Day of Atonements (Leviticus 23:28, et al). Apparently, we can achieve atonement for many things on that one day.

Affliction does not mean that you should invent creative means of torturing yourself. The Torah outlines five forms of affliction for Yom Kippur. On Yom Kippur it is forbidden to:

Eat or drink
bathe or wash
wear leather shoes, leather sandals or any other leather footgear
have marital relations
anoint oneself
(Annointing refers to rubbing or applying on one's body any substance -- such as oil, soap, alcohol, hair tonic, cream, ointment, perfume).

Cain is not doomed to a fate of endless wandering. Cain is not doomed to Wandering endlessly. In fact, He does the opposite! He becomes the Patriarch of the first great civilization, named for his son Enoch (not the son of Jared, who is the Enoch that "walks with God"). How could he create a city, if he were doomed to wander for eternity? How could he take a wife and bear children if he were doomed to be alone? What happened was he was separated from Ha-Adamh (His Fathers name), not Adamh (The Earth). This word becomes the first word used for the concept of a communal habitation established by walls.

The "personal interpretation" you stand behind is popularized in Sunday School from a Persian teaching of Habil and Kabil, that has nothing to do with Qain and Hebel. Mine is the essence of the Rabbinical teaching of the nature of Atonement; which is the fundamental premise of the need for Messiach.

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raum

#16

QUOTE(adiriel)So, please, tell me how is any of this *favored protection for the rest of his days* and *empire emerging from his bloodline* not a sign that God respected his offering of Abel? Furthermore, Cain became the leader of a people who were powerful beyond belief, and unstoppable except by their own iniquity- A people who dominated the entire world, before the flood, and the only bloodline that survives the torrent that destroys the world.

I was under the impression that God had marked Cain so that he wouldn't be killed by someone else as a punishment for him having to leave the face of the The Lord...

QUOTE(Genesis 4:13 - Genesis 4:15)4:13 Cain said to the LORD, †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“My punishment is greater than I can bear. Â
4:14 Behold, you have driven me out this day from the surface of the ground. I will be hidden from your face, and I will be a fugitive and a wanderer in the earth. It will happen that whoever finds me will kill me.†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬?
4:15 The LORD said to him, †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“Therefore whoever slays Cain, vengeance will be taken on him sevenfold.†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬? the LORD appointed a sign for Cain, lest any finding him should strike him.

So, it seems more of a prevention measure, than anything...But, indeed, this is where the bible gets confusing...Says he went to the land of Nod, which means wandering/wanderer...

And if this is true...Cain FOUND a wife...

Which means, there were other people about the earth, does it not..?

Why would he need a mark, if where he was going, he would be the only one there...It says Cain had a son named Enoch, and named the city that he lived in after him...This Enoch, I don't reckon was to be confused with the Enoch that walked with God, some 6 or 7 generations from Adam, starting with Seth, the son that "replaced" Abel...

RAUM...Please elaborate more if you can, on the mark of Cain...It is referred to now as like a mark of a murderer, but it wasn't so much along those lines...I have always been very curious of this story, for one, as it seems like Cain wasn't given much of a punishment at all...More of a reward, and your explanation makes sense...

#17

the word "mark" is "oth". It is the root of our word "oath." Thus, the "oth ha-Qain" is the Mark of Cain. The root of the Hebrew word "oth" is "Uth", which means "consent, or agreement."

The word is translated in the bible as "mark" ONLY ONCE. Here is a breakdown of conventional translation in the Old Testament.

sign(s) 60, token(s) 14, ensign(s) 2, miracles 2, mark 1

This is a total of 79 times, 79 is a valuable number, and part of the mystery of this word is that it occurs 79 times, this is the same value as "Boaz" (Beth Ayin Zain) the pillar of Solomon's Temple whose name means "established" and the Name of the Son of Joshua the Mighty and Rohab. This figures into the murder of Hiram Abiff, and the entire Masonic mystery of the Tird Degree, that of the Master Mason, who is bound by the word Tubal Cain, as Tu Bal Cain - which has a meaning that is only understood through meditation.

Oth is defined as "distinguishing banner, miraculous sign, token, ensign, proof, evidence, standard, dedication, rememberance." How do any of these sound bad? How does any of this calculate that Cain is being Punished? He is given a "solemn *oath*." Incidentally,
the rainbow, as a sign of the covenant that God will not destroy the world with flood is also a "oth."
The Holy Tablets of Law, were the "oth" of the Communion of YHVh with Mosheh.
The "Miracles of Moses" were "oth"
the lights of heaven as signs of the Times - they are "oth"
the circumcision is "oth"

And consider these quotes... all of which sign=oth.

Isa 7:11 Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above.
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isa 8:18 Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.

The first "oth" given to a single man for his deeds is given to Cain. This is the only time that this word is "Mark." It is most often "sign" [from God] or [token] of Favor, and twice used for "miracle".

No argument that Cain was being punished will hold water. He was cursed, and he appealed to God, and was spared. Plain and simple,.. this is the basis of The "oth" (which is not the curse). It is the Sign of Cain's redemption, and never is any "evil" spoken of Cain in his actions or in his life.

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raum

#18

For clarity's sake. It is not the son of Cain, named Enoch (dedicated) who "does not die, but goes with God." It is the son of Jared, named Enoch, born many ages after.

Cain's actual curse is that he will be avenged (killed by mistake, as though an animal) by the seventh generation of his loins.

From the teachings of Dr. Rabbi Shlomo Riskin
(look him up for his credentials)

The difficult and almost mysterious Biblical account between the murder of Abel and the birth of Seth, the third son of Adam and Eve, reveals an interesting approach to our question at hand. After Cain kills his brother, the Torah records Cain's punishment as a perennial rover and roamer (NA V'NAD), and then goes on to list Cain's descendants. Except for names, no details are given about five generations of Cain's progeny until we arrive at Lemech, the sixth generation.

Lemech, we are told, had two wives, Adah and Tzilla. Adah gives birth to two sons, Yaval and Yoval, the Torah identifying them by their professions: YAVAL is the "father of such as abide in tents, and graze herds" (Genesis 4:20) His brother YUVAL is "...the father of such as handle the harp and pipes." (4:21) The text then introduces us to the son of his wife, Tzilla. "And Tzilla also gave birth to TUVAL-CAIN, forger of every sharp implement in brass and iron..." (4:22) A second child, Naamah, is named but not described; she is a woman, and the Midrash identifies her as Noah's wife. So far, so good. But what follows is one of the strangest and most cryptic dialogues of the entire Bible: "And Lemech said unto his wives: Adah and Zillah hear my voice; wives of Lemech, hearken unto my speech; for I have slain a man by wounding (him) and a child by bruising (him); If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold (or, in the seventh generation) then Lemech seventy and sevenfold (or, in the seventy-seventh generation)." (Genesis 4:23-24)

What exactly is Lemech talking about, and what is the context of his declaration? There seems to be a gaping hole between the verse that speaks of Tuval-Cain forging brass and iron, and Lemech's powerful and poetic statement to his wives.

Rashi was bothered by this question and he quotes a Midrash which provides the missing step in the sequence. He informs us of what was apparently a well-known traditional tale that Lemech was blind, and he would go out hunting with his son Tuval-Cain. On one occasion hearing noise behind a bush which they assumed to be game, Tuval-Cain told his father to release the bow; only afterwards did they discover - to their horror - that the animal' was none other than their ancestor Cain. In anguish, the blind Lemech chaffed his two hands together squashing his young son's head between his powerful palms and killed him. Lemech's wives were understandably upset with their husband, and refused to have intimate relations with him. Writes Rashi, "...he endeavored to appease them. Hear my voice' - obey me and return to me; for the man Cain I slew - was he slain by my wounding? Did I then kill him or the young lad by premeditation? ...And if Cain was punished for the premeditated murder of Abel only in the seventh generation, I will certainly be reprieved until the 77th generation!" (see Rashi Genesis 4:23-24).

Certainly, Rashi is closing a circle by informing us that Abel's murder is finally avenged with Cain's death - albeit seven generations later. But Rashi's interpretation does not connect in anyway the explicit inclusion of the professions of Lemech's sons with their father's declaration. This is where the Ramban steps in. He writes: "...Lemech was a very wise man in every craft. He taught his eldest son Yaval the business of pasturing according to the nature of the cattle, and his second son Yuval the art of music. He taught the third one (Tuval-Cain) to forge metals and make swords, spears, javelins and all instruments of war. His wives were then afraid that he might be punished because he brought the sword and murder into the world, thus continuing the evil deed of his ancestor (Cain)" (Ramban, Genesis 4:24)

Let us attempt to analyze the words of the Ramban in depth. The Book of Genesis seems to contrast civilization and culture, science and humanity, technology and ethics. Abel was a shepherd, sensitively watching over his flock with much time for study, prayer and contemplation; Cain was a tiller of the fields, father of technological advance which leaves little time or energy for the world of the spirit. It may very well be that the tension between these two contrasting life-styles and philosophies brought about humanity's first murder.

As the generations progressed, the aggressive and wily hunter Esau is contrasted with the more studious and naive shepherd tent-dweller Jacob, much as Joseph the dreamer of Egyptian farm technology is contrasted with Judah, the traditional Israeli shepherd. Joseph proves himself to be a master of Egyptian civilization, adept at politics and economy, whereas Judah - at least according to our Sages - founds the first Torah academy in Goshen. Yaval the shepherd tent dweller (shades of Jacob) And Yuval the musician represent culture par excellence; indeed, their names resonate YOVEL, the 50th Jubilee year which portends freedom for all, remissions of debts, return to ones' ancestral lands - in short, redemption. Rashi even defines the Hebrew word YOVEL as meaning the ram's horn, an implement of music and exhortation.

Tuval-Cain, the third son, is engaged in a contrasting endeavor: he is "the forger of every sharp implement in brass and iron" (4:22). Brass and iron can be used to make tools for the trade of agriculture or weaponry for destructive warfare; in either case, Tuval-Cain represents civilization rather than culture, technology rather than ethics. Rashi suggests that the Hebrew "TUVAL" comes from TAVLIN, which means spice; just as spices refine and improve the taste of food, Tuval-Cain - our spiced-up Cain - "refined and improved the works of Cain by providing weapons for murderers." (Rashi, on verse 22).

From this perspective, the wives of Lemech refuse to consort with him because he has brought weapons of destruction into the world. His response - that he certainly did not strike a premeditated blow because he merely taught a neutral technology - can easily be transposed to the more modern arguments of Oppenheimer and Einstein; Yes, atomic energy may very well be used to produce bombs of mass destruction, but it can also serve to cure cancer!

The Jubilee will announce freedom, peace and redemption when we learn to emphasize the spiritual values of Yaval and Yuval; at best, Tuval-Cain may be their handmaiden, enhancing culture through the comforts wrought by civilization. At the end of the day, Judah the shepherd is declared ruler of his brothers and progenitor of the Messiah; Joseph, master politician and technocrat, must pave the way and prepare the infrastructure for the advent of Judah. Only when Tuval-Cain understands that his technology must be refined and ennobled by doctors of the spirit that humanity soar upwards rather than self-destruct.

Shabbat Shalom

(This should explain why Tu Bal Cain is a word of "oath" to the Master Mason.)

#19

OK...

On to my other question...It says that Cain "found" a wife...Furthermore, the bible goes on to say specifically, "ONLY the decendants of the first man Adam can be saved..."

That means some of us, aren't from Adam, does it not..? Or is this a mistranslation/misunderstanding, and it is referring to other living things..?

#20

Cain's wife is a subject of debate with no end. Mainly, because people have no idea what has transpired from the birth of Cain and Abel.

I personally believe the tradition that Cain's wife was the "Lilith" (ha-lalitha ;who is never given a name just as Cain's wife is never given a name, she who left Adam for Nod, and went the way of laying with the sons of god.) Being that the tradition in Cain's lineage emerges as one of those who mate the Daughters of Men with the Beni Elohim (Sons of God), this is pretty well established as a good guess.

But note, it says nothing of Cain "finding" his wife in Nod, nor of his marriage. Don't read into it. We also know he is worried that he will be killed by other people. This is clear in his pleading to YHVH. So, we know people populate the lands already, and Cain knows of their existence.

It says he "knew" (i.e. impregnated) his wife, and did bear a son. His son's name was Enoch, meaning dedicated. Why should this sign of his fruitfulness bear this name, "Dedicated?" if not for the fact that he is atoned, and his son is proof *oth* of his dedication to YHVH?

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