ADN

Much of the "fiery torment" concept of hell comes from poets, not the scriptures. History Channel (once again, DOIN it!), recently did a VERY good piece on the concept of hell...try catching it if ya'll can.

um, Hell isn't mentioned in the scriptures of the Jews. not once.

The oldest mention of it in Judiasm is in the Book of Enoch, where a good description of it exists, and it exists as a burning pit, in much the same chinese way.

Now, the chinese had a burning hell, out of thousands of hells in Taoism, one of the first,.. but it was not permanent. None of them are.

Noone has a permanent hell but Christians and Muslims, actually.

vertical,
raum

true..

but what, uhh, is right?

What is right about what..?

what is hell?

Hell is what I give you everytime we ball....

You mean...What is hell...Besides the creation of poets and writers as x3n mentioned..?

Raum told what different ppl think of hell, but not which one is right..So I was asking which one was right..

ok, D-man,

Hell is a term, loaded to the max. It is not not hell, per se.

It is She-hol, the abode of the dead. It is the rave or a pit as a metaphor for feeling abandoned by God.

The word Shin Aleph Vau Lamed ShAUL, is used in the Old Testament 63 times (65 in some versions); it is translated Grave, Pit, or Hell. It is used in the words of most all, including God as †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“Hell, Pit, and Grave†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬? interchangibly. The only book it is completely consistent in is the 4 times in Genesis, the first mention of it being very significant for the word Sheol, is translated, in this case as "Grave" all 4 times, and by Jacob, or in his sons quoting him:

the story, thus far:
Joseph's brothers (ten of the son's of Israel, or Jacob) take his coat of many colors, and rent it with blood and tear it and tell their father that Joseph is dead. in reality, they just sold him to Midanites, who in turn takre him to Egypt where he is prophet for the Pharoah.

Genesis 37:35 And all his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted; and he said, For I will go down into the grave unto my son mourning. Thus his father wept for him.

Next, in Numbers, we see it translated as †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“Pit†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬?

The story, thus far:
Moses is being challenged by Korah, great-grandson of Levi, who is saying †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“Why should pl;ace yourself above the rest of us.†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬? Moses says God set me and mine above you, and to prove it. He says †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“If these men die the common death of all men, or if they be visited after the visitation of all men; then the LORD hath not sent me.†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬?

Numbers 16:30 But if the LORD make F38 a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the LORD.

And of course†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬…¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¦they get eaten by the earth for defying God.

Numbers 16:33 They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation

Thus, we see disbelievers in Moses, or those who claim to be his equal swallowed by †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“Sheol†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬?

Then, in Deuteronomy, it becomes translated as †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“Hell†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬?

Basically, Deuteronomy claims to be one of the Books of Moses, and it is clearly not. It is a inspired text by an ediucated man, perhaps a collaboration, who was impassioned about uniting the Kingdom of Northern Israel and Southern Israel, and ending the civil war which threatened them all. It is not the same time period of Moses†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢s life, and it has references showing itself to be a text much later than the kingdom of David. The whole book is a warning to warring Jews.

Deuteronomy 32:22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

The word Sheol has a interesting history, for it is a root of Sha†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢al which appears in Bible as well, 157 times. It means ask 94, enquire 22, desire 9, require 7, borrow 6, salute 4, demand 4, lent 4, request 3, earnestly 2, beg 2, miscellaneous 16. The greatest similarity these words have is that of †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“wanting.†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬?

Gehenna is a Greek bastardation of Ge-Hinnom (Valley of Lamentation). Hell is the place of the future punishment call "Gehenna" or "Gehenna of fire". This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; a fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction. This is used 12 times

Hades (a-ido, as thwe root) is Greek used 11 times. This unseen world is the Underworld of the Hellenistic Philosophy. The world of the Shades doomed to wander for eternity. The Gate to Hades is called Orcus, and is figured in many old books of Demonology and tales of Horror.

Now, follow this: Jesus descended into Hades, not Gehenna. These are not the same place, for Abraham and Moses are in Hades, in Jeshua†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¾¢‚¬Å¡‚¢s parable of Lazarus, but only sinners are cast in Gehenna, which you should avoid. Hades is where the dead live. Gehenna is where the forsaken burn. Got it?

Now, in the English Bible, the word Sheol (which is not a place, but a noun, meaning †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“grave or pit†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬?) is synonymous with the Greek name for the †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“Realm of the Dead†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬? and the †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“Valley of Lamentation.†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬? This is one of the greatest causes of confusion in the Christian ideas of the Afterlife. Mainly because the Jewish is not the same as the Greek, and the Christian literature borrows heavily from both. So heavily that Hades is even translated as †™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬†™¢¢¬‚¦‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦¢‚¬Å“Pit†™ ¢‚¬„¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¢†™‚¢‚¢¢¢‚¬Å¡‚¬¦‚¡¢‚¬Å¡‚¬? a few times in the New Testament, even though it is no such thing!

Hope this helps!

Vertical,
raum

She-Hol, that's interesting. If the concept of "wanting" or "needing", is indeed what that word is illustrating, it definitely sounds like a much more accurate description of what "hell" would feel like, both now and then. Makes me wonder why such an effective tool to demonstrate the downside of greed, and envy would be subsituted for such a ridiculous and cartoony version of a "fiery pit". Even the poets using the fiery realm as metaphor did not intend for it to be taken as fact.