Is Jesus God, or a completely seperate entity..?

#31

Just got home from church and had to run to the computer to find out what was said on the boards. Yes, I went to church because I set them up for the reserve soldiers here in Albuquerque, NM.

The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain. Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word "Trinity" is not used in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God, the fact that there are 3 coexistent, co-eternal persons that make up God. Understand that this is NOT in any way suggesting 3 Gods. The Trinity is 1 God made up of 3 persons. There is nothing wrong with using the term "Trinity" even though the word is not found in the Bible. It is shorter to say the word "Trinity" than to say "3 coexistent, co-eternal persons making up 1 God."

Now, in Genesis 1:1, the plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26; 3:22; 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for "us" is used. That "Elohim" and "us" refer to more than two is WITHOUT question. In English, you only have two forms, singular and plural. In Hebrew, you have three forms: singular, dual, and plural. Dual is for two ONLY. In Hebrew, the dual form is used for things that come in pairs like eyes, ears, and hands. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun "us" are plural forms - definitely more than two - and must be referring to three or more (Father, Son, Holy Spirit).

A water illustration somewhat discribes the Trinity but still fails to adequately describe it fully. Liquid, vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not forms of God, each of them is God. An infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration. Instead of focusing on the Trinity, try to focus on the fact of God's greatness and infinitely higher nature than our own.

#32

just so you know, elohim is the feminine plural of a masculine genitive.

elohoth would be the masculine plural of the masculine.

The Triune forces were the Eloah,.. that is El, Iah, and Esh. esh becomes shekinah, who is the feminine firey current rushing through all of creation, and the basis for all elaboration of the holy spirit.

Keep in mind, most of the proto-hebraic peoples were worshippers of gods who had consorts...

For example, Shaddai El Chai, The Almighty Living Lord, the "God of Abraham' is the big pimp in the sky who is ithyphallic (hung like a horse).

If you look, Iah is among men, rolling up on Adam's porch and chilling with people in the shade.

El is never seen except in his grace and wrath.

The reason for this is simple, to get a true grasp of the scripture, even in the Hebrew, you need to start with the kingdom of David, and work backwards and forwards.
Understadn even the two kingdoms of Judah and israel had their own religious practices and theology. there was no single manifestation of judiasm until the Temple was erected.

#33

There is still at the end of all our long winded explinations 1 God.

#34

God, by nature, must be unquantifiable. To say there is one god is as presumptive as to say there is no god.

Here is God.

#35

God many times in the Bible said "I am God." That simple statement, by definition, is singular and means there is 1 God with infinite possibilities.

#36

the bible is translated with a distinct bias... and thus the translation is inconsistent.

a casual study of biblical Hebrew will reveal much more twists and turns of meaning than the entire set of first generation Transformers.

#37

There are so many translations now there is little to no way of knowing what the "true" original Bible even said. You've got Christians fighting over the KJV, NIB, NIV, etc. If they can't even agree on a Bible, how is the rest of the world?

#38

in the first verse of the Torah, as well as the first verse of the first book of the Old Testament, the first name of God used is Elohim (MYHLA). This word is PLURAL, and furthermore, it is the primal name given in the Ugarit script of the Canaanite peoples to the family of El, (i.e. His Mothers, Sisters, Wives, Daughters). Being that Akhanichu (Canaanites) passed lineage matriarchically (i.e. through Mother, not father) this effectively includes His Father, Brothers, and Sons.)

If you dispute that is the first verse, then you dispute the core of a doctrinal basis for this religion, which I personally DO.

Elohim literally translates to "The Family of El, as established through the women of his relation"

and if you want to say, "God took the name of the female established pantheon of the Canaanites as his own role as God of the Israelites," you might want to ask what "god" would be so great as to create all of life, the universe and everything, and yet as puny as to not be able to have a primal name other than "that evil pagan god's baby momma, and them women he stay with"?

El cannot be contained in the void of space, much less the scrolls of the Library at Alexandria. El proffers riches greater than the lustre of the deepest vaults of the Vatican. El's will is confined to no force, for all force emanates from El. El's essence is confined to no form, for all form emanates from El. El cannot be excluded from any religion, for there is NO name, word, writ, idol, prayer, or chaff of wheat burnt upon an altar which predates El.

not even his mother El-Asharah, and his father El-Shaddai. both of which are manifestations of El.

as man's understanding of his origins and being become sophisticated, so do the mechanations of his deity.

#39

Haha... nice one Raum, I agree. BTW, I loved you on Deep Space Nine. /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

Getting into a a debate on religion is by far the easiest way to piss someone off in seconds.

#40

I thought you did.

(but I didn't get the Deep Space Nine reference)