ADN

Posted: **Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:40 pm**

Kumicho wrote:
raum wrote:What examples of deception can you find on the part of Obama's camp?

The real question is why I gotta be digging for dirt on Obama..?
Cause you weren't paying this much attention to politics when Obama was being exposed, and even then he got a very cushioned attack compared to Clinton. You should dig for dirt on him because for some reason you think just because McCain is in the news right now and is under scrutiny, that any of this is suprising. The media has been doing this since Eisenhower. None of this is new, except some of the people who have been not paying attention.

NEWSFLASH:

A. Obama's chief foreign policy advisors were CARTER's anti-semite men who advised we bow down to Terrorist highjackers and appease hostage takers. Men who fucked Lebanon up so bad the French couldn't control it. Men who let Rwanda happen. Men who put our ships between Taiwan and China. Men who found, coordinated, and MADE SURE WE TRAINED Al Qaeda. THE GUY WHO BUILT THE TALIBAN FROM THE GROUND UP. Google "Zbigneiw Brzezinski" and "Robert Malley" for starters.

B. Obama's campaign has been money laundering for George Soros since DAY ONE. If you don't know who George Soros is, you simply don't know what is going on. He has done this for Blackwell, Robert Wolf, and George Soros to conceal sources of funding.

C. Obama committed treason in violation of the Logan Act.

Obama [by his own admission told reporters of a phone call] also told Zebari, he said, that Congress should be involved in any negotiations regarding a Status of Forces agreement with Iraq. He suggested it may be better to wait until the next administration to negotiate such an agreement.
WOW! I'm sure none of you care that he suggested maybe everything should get odelayed so he can take credit for it. I mean staging a political perception to garner support in his possible presidency: Problem is that IT'S A FELONY and abuse of power.

The Logan Act is a United States federal law that forbids unauthorized citizens from negotiating with foreign governments. It was passed in 1799 and last amended in 1994. Violation of the Logan Act is a felony, punishable under federal law with imprisonment of up to ten years. It is considered an act of treason. Congress has NO RIGHT to directly negotiate or suggest any actions of another country with regard to the US UNLESS APPOINTED BY COMMITTEE BY POTUS.

If it was on TV, I'd be talking about it...
Ty, that is like saying you will only eat what you can find on a menu. The best political position is the one you grow yourself. When it was on TV, you weren't watching. Also, he has had one of the softest runs ever. Want to talk about media getting pulled: SNL's skit about the Obama/Clinton debate where they drill her hard, and ask him if he wants a pillow. GONE FROM THE INTERNETS COMPLETELY.

Dirt about the McCain camp is on at least 4 different networks...
And that don't sound like it is MAYBE a bit suspicious?

I wake up in the morning, and some newscaster is talking about the latest McCain lie...I'm simply talking about what's on the news and media...Surely we are not suggesting that everyone in the media is against them..? Not suggesting that because one is doing something that the other one must be, are we..? I am certainly not my brother's keeper...
The "MEdia" is not one "Media." It is a series of corporations, who like all corporations have shareholders and representative boards of directors. These people are not "after the truth". They are BUSINESSES. If you think you know the media, and the games they play, and the people who fund those games... you are WAY mistaken.

But to answer your question, first things first, you usually catch a politician in a lie about is money...Barak has had a grass roots campaign from day 1, not taking any money...Still raising more money than anyone...
From George Soros, Robert Wolf, and hundreds of thousands of "anonymous" prepaid credit cards. I believe all political positioning should be donations openly declared with tangible roots to assets. This includes a reciept for every donation, declaring the person's voter registration number. Only registered voters should be able to donate, and NO FOREIGN DONATIONS.... like the ones picked up in Germany, when Obama campaigned there. That was just appalling.

On his own personal behalf, he put his and his wife's tax returns online...So much for trying trying to catch him up in a lie about that...
Google "Blackwell"

More than honest about earmarks, and is a forerunner in promoting transparent gov't...You can't say nothing slick to a can of oil, I've said over and over I know the score w/politicians...He has an agenda I'm sure...Anything that is understood doesn't have to be explained...

You got people who benefit from Chicago earmarks. You got a huge bias in this.
I respect that.

My point, again, is that the McCain camp lies about things that they don't even have to lie about...Crowd sizes, earmarks...I mean, WTF man...Thanks to that site you told me about, factcheck.org, I recognized it when I saw one of its spokespersons on the tube this morning breaking down all McCain's mess...The site is full of the little untruth's and contradictions of both parties...The GOP's shit has pushed the rest of the stuff off the page...Lying about the countries they visit...Lying about the amount of energy being exported...Lying about cutting taxes...
Just because it is on factcheck doesn't mean it is right. I can specifically say what she said about alaska and energy is in some ways true. Our "realized" energy supply is predominantly coal and natural gas. Oil in (RFO and DFO) is still used, primarily in connecticut plants, and a few other areas. Some oil, and kerosene or JP5 (jet fuel) is used for start up on boilers, and "UPLIFT" (when you have to swiftly climb to reach full capacity generation). Our "proven" energy supply means not just that which is realized (i.e. being tapped, mined, pumped, or skimmed), but that is sitting dormant.

ANWR, Alaska Gas pipeline, and other resources, including solar exposure for proposed solar corridors (that would funnel in energy to Canada, and allow for us to get energy from IESO and other strategic grid control areas in common use to American and Canadian System Operators and Utilities WOULD EASILY BE OVER 20% of our "proven" energy supply, if we set the strict oil policies in place against our enemies, and opportunistic oil nations who have nothing but contempt for us. I am sure people who hear this in committee pick a few words out of what I just said, and miscommunicate it.

She said 20% of our countries domestic energy supply. She should have said 20% of our countries domestic proven energy supply. Omissions of details specific to the industry are hardly accusations of lying. But to be honest, NO POLITICIAN knows my industry, and none can speak about it confidentally.

Look at Obama, who vowed that by 2012, 10% of our countries energy supply will come from renewable resources. He didn't even know that 9-11% is the current renewable supply! It's expected to be a stable 10% before George W. Bush leaves office. Wow, Obama!, that was fast...

There are several cases of his promoting changes that are already happening, and his proposals will be totally in line with the up trend in those fields. That is strategic positioning to make it look like he is more effective than he actually is.

raum wrote:You can't believe a candidate might not use email, not noticing most communication a President sends is in systems you never heard about.
If it involves typing and technology, good luck in teaching him how to use it...

no typing involved, smartass :sarcasm: . the president has people who he delegates certain communication lines to. Barack will be the same. I'd love to see someone gun down his blackberry with a blue tooth cannon though.

Posted: **Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:13 pm**

raum wrote:I'd love to see someone gun down his blackberry with a blue tooth cannon though.

CDR!!

All I got to say, is that if Obama was being 'exposed' to the level of some of the things you were talking about in that post, I'm PRETTY sure that the McCain ad would have been all over it...

We seem to be missing heads...All the things you point are are more political than common sense...Bullshitting is what politicians do...What I'm talking about...Is John McCain on TV just the other day, on The View, saying, 'NO, she didn't accept earmarks as Governor,' when they have accepted earmarks even this year...Rather than say, well yeah, he says, 'Well, she vetoed half a billion,' as if that makes what he said justified...That is a lie...Bold, plain in site...No other way to put it...And rather than say he was mistaken, they defend him...Moving on...

If you have some credible proof of the things you say are attributed to Obama, when and if you have time I'd love to read them in the Obama thread...

Posted: **Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:26 pm**

raum wrote:Frankly, alot of you are new to politics.

And?...
New doesn't mean stupid or ignorant.
That's a presumption on your part,Homez. And a tad arrogant.
It does not mean we aren't coming at this as thinking individuals.
How do you know for certain that you have not overthought all or most of what you've been saying here recently cos you're an oldhead to politricks,raum. Being too cerebral (or in the game too long) can get you bogged down in the mud or distort your perspective on the bigger picture. Often it's good to take a step back,or approach things from a fresh perspective. There are as many downsides to being old to the game as there are being new.

Posted: **Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:08 am**

Sir Jig-A-Lot wrote:
raum wrote:Frankly, alot of you are new to politics.
And?...
New doesn't mean stupid or ignorant.

Actually, it does tend to mean you are ignorant. I do not say this as a derogatory remark. Just as if i suddenly decided to start studying and paying attention to what goes on in a TV series. until I get an overview, I am a new viewer, and ignorant of the plot that occured before. I am ignorant of what happens on "LOST" but i might be able to follow it, somewhat, if I do a little research, or they have some flashbacks in the show.

That's a presumption on your part,Homez. And a tad arrogant.
It does not mean we aren't coming at this as thinking individuals.

arrogant? yes. true? in almost all cases.
Are you guys thinking? Certainly, but it seems like mostly it is still a factfinding research part of the thinking process. That is not individual thought, yet. That is a time where you form what is called your "base" opinion.

Most citizens never form more than a base opinion about politics. That doesn't mean you cats ain't smart, or got some good ideas. Far be it from me to imply that. It is plain and simple, the news and media still informs you, and you base opinion on "findings" that should be of interest, but not impact an informed political thought. This is the honeymoon period for the person following politics. I am prolly in the latter stages of this after about 12 years of following local, federal, and international politics.

How do you know for certain that you have not overthought all or most of what you've been saying here recently cos you're an oldhead to politricks,raum. Being too cerebral (or in the game too long) can get you bogged down in the mud or distort your perspective on the bigger picture. Often it's good to take a step back,or approach things from a fresh perspective. There are as many downsides to being old to the game as there are being new.

I am not old to the game. I just played other games that give me an advantage in following this one. I got a HUGE picture of Congress from a former Congressman in my young teen years. and for the record I have been politically active longer than Obama or Palin. heh.

...and I don't necessarily endorse any of the candidates active in ANY party right now... but Ralph Nader would be a good V.P. candidate.

But the Big Picture... hell, so few people can even get the big picture it is almost damaging to the understanding of others to even try and share it with them.

for example, have you looked at the impact on tourism from a proposal raising taxes on people with 200k+, but cutting taxes for people making less? I'm not saying do you like it, I am saying can you gauge the impact? there is no "best candidate" and everyone should know that. There is simply a set of assets and liabilities to each proposed administration. It is up to you, The People, to capitalize on which ever is accepted by the electoral college.

Red, Blue, or Colorless - WE ARE THE PEOPLE.
These people work for us. Always remember that.
and remember what is at stake, if you have sight of it.

Politics are like chess, the only way to tell if a move made is a bad one is in hindsight after someone else makes a move...

Posted: **Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:13 pm**

Anyone ever seen the movie Bob Roberts....the McCain campaign is really starting to remind me of it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2uWcukaSpg

Posted: **Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:21 pm**

blixa wrote:Anyone ever seen the movie Bob Roberts....the McCain campaign is really starting to remind me of it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2uWcukaSpg

Don't say that....

Bob Roberts is the kind of man I would vote for!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iPipydRDAU&NR=1

great movie. I need to see it some time.

(see what I did there?)

Posted: **Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:00 pm**

John McCain: A Fucking Hypocrite With Malleable Ethics

Courtesy Of CBS Nightline:

McCain On:

Eco Drilling

Then: "Not In California,Not In Alaska,Not In Yada Yada Yada.."
Now: "DRILL BABY DRILL!!!"

Wall Street

Then: All for financial deregulation
Now: For Regulation

On the Democratic Opposition:

Then: "I Will Be Respectful Towards The Democratic Nominee.."
Now: All For Smear Campaigns Run By Former Dubya Advisors

On Talking With Serious Journalists

Then: Used to travel on his bus called The Straight Talk Express & shoot from the hip.
Now: Travels on his plane that has an unused conference area & sits behind a black curtained area while not uttering a peep to a planeful of journalists.

Will The Real John McCain Please Stand Up?!?...or at least send me an email...oh wait!, He Can't. :p

Posted: **Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:44 pm**

Orson Smelles wrote: McCain On:

Eco Drilling

Then: "Not In California,Not In Alaska,Not In Yada Yada Yada.."
Now: "DRILL BABY DRILL!!!"

Spite does not become you. http://history.howstuffworks.com/americ ... ccain7.htm

Wall Street

Then: All for financial deregulation
Now: For Regulation

Then = When? In 2005-

http://snipurl.com/3rw6z [www_govtrack_us]

Here is plain damn truth of Regulation, from someone who has worked with Regulation for over 10 years. It is ineffective without correct oversight. I work with oversight committees on a daily basis. They have a great deal of work to do, and often can't coordinate their efforts. Regulation has to be reformed, systems we use are so prone to error, that the governement gives HUGE allowances for error. It is the task of the respondent (the regulated company) to clear those up, and make sure the information they are providing is accurate. Oversight needs to be more coordinated. We work to make it happen, but many companies REALLY resist that because it draws up their operating expenses, and limits their business in ways that they might not want to see disappear.

The truth of financial institutions is that they simply do not work. never have, never will. The first law of thermodynamics applies to financial machines as well. That being said, we have to provide requirements because most Americans don't understand finances past eighth grade comprehension.... EVEN PEOPLE WITH DEGREES.

On the Democratic Opposition:

Then: "I Will Be Respectful Towards The Democratic Nominee.."
Now: All For Smear Campaigns Run By Former Dubya Advisors

On Talking With Serious Journalists[/quote]

Both candidates are in smear mode now. Deny that at your own peril.

Then: Used to travel on his bus called The Straight Talk Express & shoot from the hip.
Now: Travels on his plane that has an unused conference area & sits behind a black curtained area while not uttering a peep to a planeful of journalists.

He doesn't like the area and its layout. It is nothing like the press area on the bus. He has been kind of vocal about how it is not an area he feels he can sit with the press. nice try to make him look inconsistent, though.

Will The Real John McCain Please Stand Up?!?...or at least send me an email...oh wait!, He Can't. :p

Posted: **Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:42 pm**

Look,raum, Let's just agree to disagree on who we barrack for in this race. I knew of McCain years ago when men like Carter & Clinton used to praise this guy for his passionate beliefs & his willingness to cross the floor on certain issues. I believe that man has left the building in the last month or two. Johnny is now willing to win By Any Means Necessary , even if it means throwing out what he stood for for the longest time out of the Straight Talk Express window. I am NOT trying to make any converts here @ AF for Obama or anyone else. Just commenting or reporting what I've seen or been made aware of. I truly dig on your posts inside VU, but in Worldwide, you've come across as bordering on blind fervent fanaticism in defending 2 souless power-hungry monsters at this point in time. And I ain't saying Biden or Obama are as clean as whistles either. Don't play yourself,son. The way I believe McCain has played himself. I respect you too much.

I just want to be clear on this: If I post anything in these political threads from here on out (& even mostly before) , It ain't an answerback record or diatribe against you. Please do not take it as such,bro.

I just personally think homeboy has gone from Senatorial Class Act to Sloganeering Crack Addict. [/2cents]

Posted: **Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:58 pm**

If you gents would be kind enough to oblige a canuck with a moment's tolerance of his political musings, I'd like to make a couple points about the McCain-Palin ticket...

I'll preface by saying that I've visited over 30 states, I have a brother, 2 uncles, 2 aunts, a nephew, a sister in-law and about 7 cousins who are all American citizens or are soon to be citizens. In Canada, we receive extensive coverage of American news and current events(CNN, FoxNews, C-Span, MSNBC) and most people I know read American newspapers more often than Canadian ones. Culturally, we are very similar, even if we are quite disparate politically and ideologically. True, we don't pay taxes to Uncle Sam, but that's not gonna stop us from havin an opinion ;) (We're in the midst of our own election campaign atm. We have a parliamentary democracy, like Britain, which often means the opposition, collectively, recieves more votes than the elected gvmt...screwy, aint it?)

But this isn't the thread to discuss that. I'll say right now that while Barack is not my favourite figure in US politics (that honour goes to Howard Dean), I think he's far more suited to the presidency than McCain.

It's ironic that JM(McCain) has made Obama out to be nothing more than a "celebrity" or the "image" candidate, when it's JM's rhetoric that is far more steeped in identity-politics and cultural warfare. JM wants you to believe that he represents "small town values" of middle america and BO represents so called elitism and the influence of "Washington," Hollywood, or any entity based on the coasts or in large urban centres. This has nothing to do with any substantive debate over policy, but everything to do with the belief that Americans will vote for the guy with whom they can most easily identify, or makes them feel comfortable. This is what the JM camp is banking on, and this is what essentially makes JM the true "image candidate."

Same goes for Palin. Based on her profession of admiration for Hillary, the JM camp is banking on former Hillary boosters supporting a pro life, anti-gun control, anti-gay rights candidate simply because it's easier for them to identify with a woman, any woman. And it's working to an extent. This is identity politics in a nutshell, and it's an elaborate, insidious distraction.

Then one has to question Palin's fundamental aptitude for economic matters after a speech she made in Denver this week:

"Guys and gals, our regulatory system is outdated and needs a complete overhaul...We are going to reform the way Wall Street does business...”

“Government has got to get out of the way to allow the private sector to create jobs...we must recognize that it's not government to be looked at to solve all the problems.”

I understand that it's an awkward stance for a neo-con hawk of the Bush ilk to extol the virtues of increased government regulatory oversight and vigilance, but to contradict yourself like this within the span of 5 minutes raises some serious questions about her credentials. She went on to say that the crisis on Wall Street happened because "Washington was asleep at the switch."

So it's the government's job to dictate how "Wall Street does business" while at the same time "getting out of the way." Government is to blame for the problems on Wall Street, as they were "asleep at the switch," and yet government can't be looked upon to solve all the problems. I'm confused, Sarah.

If conservatives want to contend that large businesses should have the freedom to operate with minimal encumbrances in order to create jobs, then it's those same corporations who should shoulder the blame for their own greed, not Washington.

I also don't know how JM gets away with speaking authoritatively about national security when he's put this foreign policy noob a step away from the role of commander in chief. The GOP likes to talk about her executive experience (being mayor of town with 7000 pop., or 18 months as governor of the least relevant state in the union doesn't prepare you for the presidency) but having senate experience is obviously more fundamental to understanding national and foreign policy discourse.

One last note on McCain's lack of computer literacy...we've all seen people who can type around 30 words a minute just by using their index fingers, so the torture defence doesn't wash. Just like it didn't wash when he used it to rebut the criticism he received over having 9 houses. I'ts not a matter of whether you're entitled to own 9 houses, John, it's the fact that you don't care that leaves the impression you have little interest in financial issues. Which is especially pointed after you conceded that the economy is something you never understood as well as you should have.

ADN

Dirt and Dumping on Palin and McCain.

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