Who believes in Destiny? Why/Why not?

[Habib]

This has been a question that I have always been asking myself for a long time and can't come up with a genuine answer. I'm a Muslim and I believe in God.
Sometimes whenever I try to answer the question, I always relate it to examples in life that I have witnessed. Like whenever I think I believe in destiny, I try to look at people who work their asses off in school and get very high grades and yet they don't end up being anything spectacular in future. Theoretically though, they should be the most successful because of their academic records. While some people who didn't work so much in school (like a lot of the rich rappers) are multi millionaires today. In that aspect, I always think that it's human beings destiny.

On the other hand, I don't believe that it's destiny when for example people kill each other. The Virginia tech guy killing 32 people, the people who shot Pac, Marvin Gaye, Biggie and Proof etc. Whenever I hear all this shit on the media, I'm always thinking in my mind: "So is it their destiny that they were supposed to die this way? Hell no, it cannot be. God for sure didn't write it down as someones destiny that they should get shot and not live their whole life like every other human being is. They definitely are going against the will of God by doing all these."

Well, what do you guys think?

[AYHJA]

I do believe in destiny Habib, what I don't believe is that its the same as having a scripted life...Time is so fragile, with the element of change you can't say for sure what small or frivolous details you do take part in the paths you take you know..? I feel that destiny is more closely related to the term 'legacy'...And what I mean by that, and using your example, is for those that died tragically at VT...Imagine how many other people are effected by that...How many young therapists will be able to help their patients..? There's something to be said for observing tragedy and success and realizing that they're pretty much one in the same...

There was a thread in misc. that highlights this perfectly...
http://www.ayhja.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=284&t=18386

I think it basically takes a great understanding of time, dimensions, and relativity before I can more delicately explain it is what I mean...But if you read that thread, it should tell you about misconceptions and destiny...Check it out...

[Habib]

So, what do you regard as destiny exactly AYHJA? I mean, you have used the right word there, a "scripted life", that's exactly what I think it is, but scripted by God.

[trashtalkr]

I do believe in destiny. I believe in God also, even though I believe in the Christian God and not the Islamic god. I believe that God does have our lives planned out from when we are born to when and how we die. God, being completely sovereign, knows all and is in control of all. Yes, there is evil in the world (like the VT shootings) but God uses that evil for His divine purpose

[AYHJA]

There is nothing logical about a God that knows everything...What I believe is that God can process and make tremendous calculations, but you need not look any farther than then first few chapters of Genesis to know that God may indeed have a purpose and or divine plan for us, but that purpose is not pre-ordained...

I cannot believe in the sentimente that we have a scripted life...At any given point in time you can make a choice...Whereas having a scripted life (like one explained in The Matrix) highlights the fact that you already know what choice you'll make, what I feel is destiny/legacy, involves the ego in symbiosis with the fact that we have free will...The ability to make the choice...Now, whether or not those choices play a part in your destiny, again, is much more involved that that...

There was a movie called 'Marshall' about a football program that was wiped out when an airplane carrying the team and coaches were killed in an airplane...Save for a few coaches that drove, and some players that were hurt or stayed behind, all seemed lost...It's a good movie, you should watch it...

You destiny is your ego, your will manifested into your reality...This is why Michael Jordan didn't let him being cut from his HS basketball team stop him from achieving his goal...Had Einstein listened to his teachers, he would never even have learned to think for himself...God is in all things...Destiny in my eyes is the complete and utter understanding of that...

[Habib]

...At any given point in time you can make a choice...

Yeah that's what I'm trying to explain AYHJA, yes you are right. Any given point in life, you can make a choice...BUT...God already knows that you were gonna make those choices. He has planned/written it out that you will come up to that final choice you made at last. He has it planned that you were gonna fumble around with different ideas before making a decision. He basically has planned whatever you are doing. He planned that you will make your second post on this thread before I make my own second post, etc...

I mean, God is omnipotent...there are so many thing that happens in life that you can just say straight away that "God saved this person"

[Sir Jig-A-Lot]

i believe in an aspect of destiny. not the pre-ordained or scripted though. i cannot explain it as this hour as articulately as i'd like cos i just got up & am still caffienating. i will say this much, as far as i have gathered,there are certain Crucial Junctures in our lives which we all must reach individually & at that point make choices.then said choices take us to that next juncture in a manner reflecting/snowballing the choice we've just made. another way of putting it would be that we as individuals must have certain experiences,meet particular people etc. there are also 3rd party forces guiding us & presenting our choices to us but ultimately the choices regardless of how miniscule or large are ours to make. those aforementioned 3rd parties can do naught but to present & try to guide us to the best possible choice.
I also do believe there is a Creator/Sentient Force from whom all that is comes. this Creator i believe has left us to our own devices & "observes" us as a species. there's more to say but i need to continue my caffienation..

[AYHJA]

God already knows that you were gonna make those choices. He has planned/written it out that you will come up to that final choice you made at last.

Well see, that's what I don't agree with...You yourself have the ability to create things...Would you in fact still create them if you knew already what they would be..? I'm not sure if you read the bible or not, but it clearly says more or less that we are more like God than we think...More so, when God was explaining about creation, he clearly said what separated us from animals did he not..? What animals do is more systematic, birds fly south for the winter...Bears hibernate...

For us, life is not so simple...

When it comes to God, and religion, lets not loose sight of rationality...When the answers seem simple its because they usually are...Would you lay down with a woman and make a son that you knew would turn out to be the VT shooter..? Why would someone who is full of love, so much love that they would give us life, give us this fucking hayride..? Knowing that it would cost you the life of your own son to make amends for everything..? I think I give God a little more credit than that...

[Habib]

Lol pardon me AYHJA, but I didn't quite understand that last post. The part where you discussed God, religion and rationality...

[AYHJA]

What I'm saying is...

If you believe God loves us...Why would he knowingly subject us to the dark side of humanity..? If you knew that any offspring you had would become a murderer of innocents...Or a child molestor...Would you still want to have childen..?