Typical Atheist behaviour?

[x3n]

So...

I'm doing my rounds in the Webternets, the putrid, decaying and seeping underbelly of the webternet tubes. As a confessed fascinated student of everything we convince ourselves that we are not...I stop to read this one post.
It deals again with Eastern European youth. Those happy campers continue to exceed my expectations of how far is actually too far and I am again, left with my mind completely blank. I would go into the details but I feel it will distract from the question I want to pose, so!...
Here's one of the links:
http://pysih.com/2008/12/07/the-dnepropetrovsk-maniacs/
Now, the link will give you all the info, there is an actual video and it seems to be one of many. That link doesn't provide it, so no worries, the transcript should give you MORE than enough info on what goes on.

Oh, right...the question. Yes well, I went on looking for more info, maybe a counterpoint, another version...a conspiracy to frame otherwise exemplary, god-fearing youths; alas I found none. I DID, however, come accross this:
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/ETFs_ ... rt=2&off=1

And so, there is my question:
Is it boys, or youth, or the cold, or the Ukraine?...or is this just typical? :twisted:

[NotFunny]

I wouldn't click on that first link with a 10 foot barge pole!
It's linked to zangocash.com. :bad: ;)

[trashtalkr]

Wow....this really sickens me. I could never understand how the hell someone could do something like that.

I would not call this typical behavior, because it doesn't happen on a regular basis, but it does show us just how evil humanity is and why we need a Savior. I can see 2 reasonings behind something like this: 1) No dignity for human life; 2) No moral compass by which to judge your actions. (or a combination of the two)

While both of those reasons may be found in atheists, I cannot say it's typical. It is disgusting, it is immoral, and it is satanic. It shows how messed up we are without a God in our lives

[raum]

Counterpoint:

I wouldn't say it is "typical" - but it is procedural. They actually seem sane.

It seems clear to me that they are complete materialists. They are breaking a toaster to see how it works. No consideration for the feelings, mentality, family, pain, suffering... The death cries are just the "the noise" of the mechanism they are breaking.

I would argue that these are the closest to EXTREME noncompassionate anarchism. They have no motive to kill. Killing is not even really the motive. Having fun is. It just so happens killing is the way to have THIS kind of fun.

This has occurred in Europe, especially eastern Europe for so long it is an archetype of the folk legends from that region. As well as inner cities and suburbs the world over. However, it is actually conceviable these kids could be theists, as many are. They could believe there is a God, or not... but that is not their motive. Not all religious killers have religious motives. But, these guys are likely agnostic - they don't CARE if there is a God. Meaning is not what they are about. Those are details they don't seem to concern themselves with.

You could say they are displaying a certain kind of neurosis where they have dehumanized their victims or maybe themselves, but they are not even psychotic, based of these displays. Aside from their base desire to kill, they appear functional.

Personally, I think we see this in our genetic code. The "Lucifer" principle it is sometimes called (which I think is an ignorant name). The "on off switch" to commit homicidal or suicidal acts to effect population control. We can't control it, but we can monitor it, and we can PREVENT it.

As for that comment about "typical atheist behavior" - Joe Biden has three words for her "paranoid alarmist internet troll".

[AYHJA]

I agree with raum here...To connect this type of behavior with being atheist isn't the right angle...All of the facts involved seemed to support his notion that God has nothing to do with shit like this...They are not making webcam videos speaking crazily about the blood of Jesus Christ or lack thereof...For all the labels we put on things, one label is overused and thus, the meaning is lost...

This is as good an example as any as good old fashioned fucking crazy...Just missing some shit that most people are born with and not caring...The utter lack of remorse..? Showing up to the funerals..???!? Unreal...The fucked up thing about this is that they won't get to get it like they lived, which I'm sure they would enjoy...Fuck the courts and jails...Leave them tied up in a room where the uncles and pissed off family members of the victims and let them get their due...You disagree with that, watch the vid and imagine that being your family member...

Nothing to do with atheism, but I'll bookmark this shit for the next time Brains comes in talking about how fucked up OUR culture is, to see if he can spin this one back on us Amerikanskys...

[Fapper]

That's one of the many reasons i'm opposite to death penalty, i don't want the thirst for revenge (even when i understand it and agree) converts me into a murderer cause i really will regret finishing the life of any other human being no matter how fucked up is.
And I'm pretty proud of myself not finishing reading these kind of news with a 'they should be hanged by their balls'.

[x3n]

Heh!

Yeah, I just though of this as a good conversation starter...
Again, not a lot of folk are willing to sit down with good ol' x3n and talk apes.
But:

This has occurred in Europe, especially eastern Europe for so long it is an archetype of the folk legends from that region.

I am now very curious and more than a bit pleased you mentioned this, RAUM. I brought this topic up with a co-worker, who is now basically my one hope for humanity here in the real world. Baby girl was brought up in Revolutionary Cuba and happens to carry one of the sexiest brains I've encountered in a while. Being a child of the revolution and a voracious reader, she knows her some Eastern Bloc. So as I am posing the question..."the fuck is up with them kids?" , she starts off EXACTLY with that idea. Letting me know that I would do well to read up on their folklore and it could clear up some doubts. We went on to discuss other aspects of these attacks and behaviors (and this is why I'm particularly pleased about your post structure), our conversation followed this same path. The only video I have seen yet is a very small clip of these three kids on trial and they look like someone who is being sued on Judge Judy over late rent. Concerned and annoyed because they are there, but in no way, the faces of killers, maniacs or even frightened children. More like "well, this sucks". A quick clip of two of their parents and they are convinced that these dudes have been framed and/or coerced into a confession. So disconnected and functional indeed, that parents are sure they didn't do it, despite their handsome mugs in almost every picture next to coffins, cats and cadavers.
So I throw the "atheist" argument (just for giggles) and my friend replies "Meh, too easy..."
in essence, we agreed that that was neither here nor there, there was no message, no stance of defiance. Just their "theme" if you will. Ukraine, as I understand it, is mostly Christian, and this is evidenced by most of their modern customs and Atheists are a rarity. If they are Atheists, it's never been brought up.

Personally, I think we see this in our genetic code.

Personally...I agree. It is why I started the post with my "why":
a confessed fascinated student of everything we convince ourselves that we are not. :twisted:

For all the labels we put on things, one label is overused and thus, the meaning is lost...

Which is exactly the impression I got from finding that "typical" post. Like calling Bush "Hitler". It was thrown in without any thought behind it or any semblance of irony. This is what happens when you stray from God; instead of thinking, this is why we need to keep our asses in check, with or without prayer.
Man!, we make a wheel, figure out fire, start using a language and soon enough revised our own history.

[trashtalkr]

Raum make a great point about these kids viewing the body as a machine. That is completely materialistic and they are objectifying humans. They do not see the value in every life.

The thing about atheism, is that this type of killing or materialism is found more commonly in those who do not believe in a God than those who do. Those who are theists tend to believe that life has meaning and dignity and will not go around and murder people for fun, like these boys did. Is that to see that a theist will never murder? Of course not, but it is more common for an atheist than a theist.

Personally, I think we see this in our genetic code.

I definitely agree with this. I believe we are all born sinful and are depraved. We can help right this, but it is inherent in our nature

[AYHJA]

I am no fan of religion by a long shot, but it is an undeserved knock on even the most devout of bible thumpers to put these dudes in the realm of religion...The mention of anything biblical in this instance is completely out of league...These motherfuckers are crazy...Period...These are the nightmarish kind of people that Dr. Loomis claimed of Michael Myers...

My reasoning beckons that they are sub human...That just as persons living in one place adapt and evolve into their environments, these humanoid type dudes reflect a change for what many of us feel are for the worse...They are, for lack of a better word or idea, just not human...I lack the science to support my claim, but I'm almost certain that if you were to examine their anatomy, or if we didn't lack the sophistication to understand the human brain to that extent, we would most certainly look at these humanoids as something entirely different from the kinds of people we are and know...

This falls out of the category of anything we can label it...Killing..? These motherfuckers were burning ants with a magnifying glass...This is a science experiment...Not any type of rational human behavior...In fact, I rescind my earlier statment, they are too crazy to simply be crazy...

I'm putting my eggs in the new species basket...

[raum]

You know it's a good thread when you feel like replying to EVERY comment in the thread.

Xen - I tend to think when there are few people of real substance around, it is a time to celebrate the choice of who to hang with being made easier. Glad to hear your Femme Cubanista is close so you have *someone* to talk to. I like people. I just don't have time for them, individually.

Trash - I don't think they see value in any life. They see value in avoiding their own death - but they can't quantify it. The other thing is this kind of killing happens often - it is the kind of killing this leads to that would be more dangerous. Take a criminal psychology class, and see how many murderers are never caught. Alot of murder starts out in pairs of joykillers. Then, inevitably - they depart from each other - because one finds meaning in it. Alot of times one will kill the other - sort of like the "ultimate pulling one over on their friend". but again, it is the religious killer that is often more dangerous. He has a mission, a directive, and a target audience sometimes. To him murderous death is an instructional message. If that connects into a narcissistic tendency - lots of people die. Joykillers tend to be more cautious and casual, noncommital, if you will. It is very likely had these kids not got caught, they would have "grown up" and been perfectly indistinguishable from others in their society. To some, joykilling is a "phase." I personally think this phase for some is a rite of passage, and I think from what I have seen in some really bad hoods - this is a large driving force in gang and inner city criminal culture. I also would argue that is more common for a deviant religious motivation to lead to murder... either through warped visions of power or righteousness while an athiest position leads to more theft of property or violations of person. They want to steal what they can have and touch.

AYHJA - There is an argument in their showing up at the funerals for just being sociopathic. They do know that what they are doing can get them in trouble. I would like to know why they showed up at the funerals. did they want to see people mourning for others? did they want to scoff at people dealing with loss? If I were to analyze them, that would be my entry point.

Fap - I don't want "revenge". I don't want "justice". I want them to get the permanent penalty box for not playing by the rules. The pine penalty box. We as a species can not afford to keep imperfections that can not be trusted not to detroy themselves or others. As a contributive social race - everyone of our numbers is part of the solution to the equation we are working on. Who did these miscreants kill? I myself could have been a joykiller - I have no qualms about exercising the power to take life. FROM ANYONE; indirectly and most directly. BUT I do have willing reservations I personally set in place because I respect humanity and its species-wide largely consensual ideals. I also hold respect for the ability to take life, and would not abuse such power, knowledge, or skill that I have been blessed or entrusted with. That is what I am proud of. The fact I have the power, and the will to never use it without the respect it deserves. Most people are afraid of what they or others would do with the power - it's why anti-gun nuts think a machine gun is more dangerous than a revolver and want tax dollars to engrave numbers on bullets that criminals will just file off. KNOW THYSELF includes the dangerous parts.