Revelation

#1

How trusted is it? I know they debated whether to put it in the Bible, and virtually nothing is known about its author, John of Patmos. Is this really the book we should base our End-time beliefs off of?

#2

John of patmos.

What's to know. He was a Christian, and exiled to of the twleve original Greek isles for preaching in public. The island of Patmos (greek word for "Mortal") was made his place of exile by Emperor Damatian (who ruled from 81-96 AD). In the 4th Century, this island was sacred to Diana, and was the home to the famous cave of the Oracle of Dephi. It remained such for many centuries. John was in this very same cave, when he saw light through a crack in the Wall where the intoxicating fumes of the sooth-saying smoke of the oracl would waft. He went over to the crack (which is anciently regarded as the very "hidden crevice of Diana's thighs...), and out popped Jesus. Jesus showed him many wonderful things, and gave him a rock, wherein he saw a secret name that will let let him ascend to heaven before Jesus comes back and raises the dead. Presumably, because no one would be there to preserve and bury his body.

Catholic "tradition" states this is the same John who walked with Jesus... St. John the Evangaline. This was a later development, presumably to explain how this man "John" recognized Jesus when he found his in the cave. Most Catholics know better, and it is not even taught as such in most places. There is more than one John in the Bible. Which is more than absurd.

Did I mention Opium was popular on Patmos? In fact, so popular that the red and yellow fields which grow there are affectionately called "The fields of rape and honey." Yes, this is the basis of the Ministry album of the same name.

and let's be frank,.. there was no such thing as a controlled substance in John's day... and John from Epheseus would be no stranger to opium.

Sorry, but I GOT to say something about a religion that basis its development on what happens on a island full of poppies and includes poor translation and highly figures the words "john," "crack" and "rock" as important elements of the Spiritual instruction... :shock:

:oops: they forgot to tell you that in sunday school, huh?

vertical,
raum

#3

Well done..

Does 666 have any significance today, or was it only a reference to Nero?

#4

LoL...

I think that 666 bit has been covered before, but either way, seems like another topic all together...

#5

666 is literally the value of the phrase "To Mega Therion" - i.e "The Great Beast."
666 is also the value of "Arun H-Qadosh" - "The Holy Ark." This is the Name of The Ark of the Coveneant.

The Great Beast in Question is Aryeh, The Lion. The Symbol of the Tribe of Judah.

It is also the Magick number of the 6th Order Magick Square. These are crucial to understand.
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A Magick square is called a Kamea, and is a means by which spirits can be summoned. A Magickal Square is where you make a grid of letters where all the rows and colums have the same value. Remember, in hebrew and older proto-languages, letters are also numbers, so these make words, which can be spoken in invocations.

For example, here is the Third Order Magick Square:

We take the number 1-9, and make a three by three grid, where each row and column equals the same value:

4 9 2
3 5 7
8 1 6

That valuie is 15. Now, we can substitute the letters:

Aleph = A = 1
Beth = B = 2 (has a hard "v" sound in some cases)
Gimel = G = 3
Daleth = D = 4
Heh = H = 5
Vau = V,W, U = 6 (also sounds like o in some cases)
Zain = Z = 7
Cheth = Ch, K = 8 (the Ch is like the clearing of the throat)
Teth = Th = 9

So this makes this Square:

D Th B
G H Z
Ch A V

This conceals a statement that can be used to unlock the powers of the square. The means of controlling that power is made by "connecting the dots" in a single line, in sequential order. The source of the power is concealed in the value 15.

Vague enough, yet?

Here,I can't tell you the phrase, but I will tell you that 15 = YH = the Name "Jah" = The God of the Kings of Judah.
This is called "The Monogram of the Eternal."
15 also equals

HUD, "Spendor, Radiation, emanation"
GAUH, "Ability, Just Pride, Carry Out, Accomplish"
ABYB, "Spring" (The Season of new growth symbolizing the Sunrise, and Childbirth)
AYD, "Steam, Vapour, Smoke" (This is a ancient metaphor for a man's life, as but a tool for God see James 4:14)
AVGH, "Mountaintop, Zenith"
HY, "Lamentation, Mourning."
BVGD, "Traitor, one who Betrays"
ZCh, "He who Impels, Forces, or Accomplishes"

Interesting yet? This Square, as you may can see is the prophecy of the Messiach; That God will birth an actual child into the flesh of man to suffer and reign, and he will anoint the people with the Splendor of their God." This square conceals the actual "Seal of Solomon, as revealed to him by his father David, and his God."

Even more interesting is this is the basis for the "Parable of h Mustard Seed," and was taught long before it is attributed to Jesus in the New Testament. It is likely he was teaching his disciples the secrets of the Kamea and this instruction wouldhave had special relevance upon their ears.
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As for 666, this is the Magickal square that reveals the true nature of Man's destiny.

See, the sun is Shamash Shin Mem Shin. Shin means Tooth or Talon. Mem mans water. You can no more grasp the sun that a eagle can claw water, or a lion can bite the ocean. The nature of Light is beyond the materal. Shin also indicates fire, and Mem means "water." So, the water within the fire is the nature of melting this to refine them, one of the principles of alchemy.

when this is converted to a number, Shin = 300 and Mem = 40. This makes 640. 640 is the Value of MM, which is how you spell Mem. Thus Shin Mem Shin, is the Fire concealed within Water, which conceals the Fire that conceals the Water. Meditate on that a bit to see what I mean...

Now, To this innefable nature of our physical existence, we add YHVH, whihc equals 26. This makes 666. This is the exact imagery behind all Regal men who have reigned over Monarchies, from Pharoah to Richard the Lion-Hearted, to the Yellow Emperor of China or even the High Chief of the Ute Tribes of Ancient America...; This is the "The Lion of Heaven." The prinicple of a man perfectly attuning his will to that of God's, as an unstoppable and conquering force.

This principle is called "Divine Providence." The same magickal squares appear in EVERY culture that has "kings", with the exact same meanings. This alone is worth note, and much can be dscovered with their use - and even more achieved.

John warning is "That the emperor's abuse of divine providence will make man's authority over himself a means by which he proves his capacity for his destiny... and until then, he has that authority over no other. That authority will be reserved only for man as he becomes as God, not by virtue of birth or lineage claim to crown or throne."

(This Rosicrucian understanding is the origin of the idea "all men are created equal.")

John of Patmos was a bitter man, and very intolerant of the priests of the pagan religions favored at the time by Rome. He even supposedly turned a few to stone, and they are still on the Isle of Patmos. Strangely enough, the stories of his miracles are sparser and SPECIFIC. He was an amazing mystic, but almost incomprehensible, likely due to regular ingestion of opium whihc amplifies liminal states such as meditation, which would not have been a "sin" in his time, or even questionable or worth special mention any time before the 1940's, when the processing of opium to produce heroin was revealed to make it dangerously addictive with serious withdrawals that could kill a person. Until then, it was a common medication, and the most reccomended for asthma. Still, had he seen what Christianity would become, he would have been ashamed. But "eating lotus" (a greek slang for dwelling in a constant state of opium induced liminality) was common, espcially among frincge sytics. To him, Christianity was an aesthetic religion, using mystic means to achieve a unity with god that simply had no room or allowance for Secular existence. There would be no reason for him to not use opium, and poppies grow abundantly on Patmos.

vertical,
raum

#6

It is about as trustworthy as any other part of the Bible. As I remember there were at least 9 versions of the Bible before it became what we currently have. There is and unimaginable amount of written material that was not included.

But most of all, if we assume that the book of revelations is in fact truth and that the end of the world will indeed happen as written, we must also take into account that such religious writings are originated in visions that can only be taken as metaphors.

#7

bd55,

What would you say those metaphors in Revelations are symbolizing?

Ch

#8

Well, I would not expect four actual horsemen of the apocalypse to come and unleash war, famine and so for example. That would be our own doing. The metaphor just portrays our own destruction with a symbol (a horseman) for each of the logical events that can wipe us out.

#9

The white horseman with the bow is more likely to be that of the Parthians who were the only mounted archers in the ancient world. He was given a crown, appropriate for someone going forth to conquer. The crown is not the same type of crown that the beast wears (13:1) or Christ wears in 19:12 who both wear the royal crown (diadema) although the 'son of man' in 14:14 also wears the victors crown, which represents the Parthian hesitantacceptance of Christianity.

Then comes the Red Horse man, with a sword, and the capacity to make men slay each other but not make men slay the saints, in the light of the rest of the book John indicates the Red Horseman is quite capable of indicating persecution as such. Compare this with the sixth trumpet of Revelations, in which a third of mankind is killed by mounted troops. The colour red corresponds to its mission of bloodshed. The word for sword is the Roman short sword (machaira). Note that its rider "was given" power to make men slay each other. Therefore, 'was given' indicates God's permissive approval.

The Black horseman, saying, "A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!" is next. This indicates famine or shortage, a quart of wheat is enough good food for one person, but not his family. Poor food (barley) is available for the whole family. Note that luxurious items such as oil and wine are not hurt. Olives and vines are deeper rooted and are therefore able to withstand drought. This "famine" is the aftermath of war. This is the situation with the western and third world today which takes the luxurious food for itself leaving hardly enough basic food for the third world. Babylon, situated in current Iraq, is condemned for her excessive luxury in its higher eschalons which results in poverty in its lower citizenry. The merchants traded oil, wine and wheat with Babylon, but Barley is not mentioned because it is poor man's food and not a luxury. Famine is also one of the conditions leading to the end times mentioned in Mat 24:7. In the middle east, Famine has lead to ultimate political instability which is also a cause of the wars which orignate with the "oil for food" arrangement. Perhaps that is why the horse is black.

Finally, The horse is sickly yellow green (Greek chloros, from which the word chlorine comes from) like a dead person. This horse sums up the work of the other three i.e. kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth. This verse is also similar to Rev 13:10 where the clear indication is to persecution by the beast in the form of captivity, or being killed with the sword.

v8 - Coses the "Chloros" Horseman. "Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him." - Hades is the abode of the spirits after death and therefore always follows closely behind death. The convention is that a land's citizenry is collectively referred to by the name of their country. Just as we say "america is on the battlfields of Iraq."

Therefore, this is a sickly green horse with rider, named "Thanos", leading an army of the dead. I hope like fuck that is a metaphor. :shock:

They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth. - They were given power over a quarter of the earth so it was not universal it was limited power, and likewise, it was given them. See also Jeremiah's four kinds of destroyers, Jer 15:2, and Ezekiel's four dreadful judgements, Ezek 5:12, 17, 14:21 (in the LXX the same word rhomphia is used for the sword). Note the fact that they were given power, indicating the sovereignty of God , but denied the eternal life of true christians. The word kill used here is not (sacrificial) slaughter as in the second seal of War, brought by the Romans. The sword here is rhomphia not machaira, it is a great long and heavy sword, typified by that used by the Arabs. The army of the living dead are those who accept Jesus as a power of authority, but do not recieve the life after death; and remain an abberation to both. The reason is simple, they refuse to accept God's offering of Messiach,.. and deify their own leader, who is but death incarnate.

Examining the motivations for the grisly imagery of metaphor in Revelations reveals something VERY interesting:

AD 60 Earthquakes.
AD 62: Defeat of Roman army by Parthian Vologeses on eastern frontier due to superior Mounted Archers. White Horse.
AD 64: Persecution of Christians following the fire of Rome.
AD 70: Four year war of Jews and Romans ending with Jerusalem in ruins. Red Horse.
AD 68 Suicide of Nero, followed by political chaos.
AD 79 Eruption of Vesuvius which obliterated Naples and created a pall of darkness so widespread that men feared that the end of the world had come. When volcanic dust covers the sky the moon would appear red.
AD 92 Serious grain famine led to Babylonian domination of food trading. Black Horse
AD 81-92 Reign of Domitian, institutes emperor worship, persecution. Those refusing this worship were left without protection from the Arabs. Chloros horse.
AD 95 Writing of Revelation.

These are not actually things "to come in the future" they were things that had already transpired being interpreted as part of the plan that was lining up for Christiandom. The exact "instruction" being given is that the dark times the Christians had suffered were for a reason. The expanded consciouness relating these events is not confined to the temporally linear state of the common reader of the Apocalypsis.